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[vlad]

And stop the war on forum!

[crashbandicoot]

i'm new to this forum and finding this thread a little strange.

it's coming over as though it's expected that everyone has to like lh or they are a) a troll b) the thread is moderated c) the op is ganged up on by the lh lovers.

are people not allowed an individual opinion or am i misunderstanding things? i'd kinda like to think there is freedom of speach here. we don't all have to have the same opinion do we?

cheers

as to the op, i personally thought lh's driving was appauling on sunday, as were his comments reguarding other drivers and the reason he's under the steward's gaze so much.

hp

You are indeed right, LH driving on Sunday was aggressive, that aggressive that the Stewards reprimanded him for it.

It is just from experience of this forum the probability will be that some members who are so in awe with Mr Hamilton that anything that is said against him turns into a bitter argument of hate.

'tis a shame then.

Personaly I cannot stand the man.

|For quite some time I had great trouble coming to terms with this, as he showed as a great driver, he's British, in a british team... good prospects.... I just never liked him.... and I felt bad.

Maybe because of this dislike (and guilt) I was more aware of his faults and annoying little... things that just... annoyed me.

Then his deeper faults of blaming, moaning, childish prima-donna acts, and then flinging the 'race' card, even in jest...well well. Mr Hamilton, you sad sorry sack.

I'm now quite at ease with my venomous dislike of Hammy.

and his father.

...and his girlfriend.


almost, though maybe not quite, as much as I carry bad thoiughts for Schumaker...
(I have no feelings either way for any family or friends of our German cousin though)
cb

[vaptin]

And stop the war on forum!

Lightweight, this isn't war.

Wait to see when Lewis tries to pull a stunt on Alonso, oh he'll be sorry.

[Peng]

And stop the war on forum!

Lightweight, this isn't war.

Wait to see when Lewis tries to pull a stunt on Alonso, oh he'll be sorry.

Armageddon will occur the end of days i tell you!

[stonemonkey]

Perhaps Lewis was just trying to copy his hero, at about the 3.20 mark.

[youtube]bVGXFTwX97U[/youtube]

[What's Burning?]

Perhaps Lewis was just trying to copy his hero, at about the 3.20 mark.

[youtube]bVGXFTwX97U[/youtube]

Yeah but a lot of people weren't members of this forum then, so it doesn't count.

[vlad]

Hahaha! Nice one!


Anyway, I reviewed his colision with Massa again. If you take a better look, Webber really sucked at that corner. Massa almost touched him. There's one reason for him to ge even deeper down the inside. And, yes, Schumi showed how it's meant to be done there. The old fox is still far from over!

[Big Azza]

Peng,

I was not saying that Vettel was controlling luck through magic powers. I was saying that Vettel took advantage of the luck and turned it into a race win. How many times have drivers like Button done the same thing? (Or Alonso in Singapore? )

That is the quality of a World Champion: the ability to read situations and turn it into the best possible scenario. All the greatest drivers have got lucky in their life. Just think - Massa would be a World Champion right now and Hamilton - very unlucky had Glock's tires not given up on him on the LAST corner, of the LAST lap, of the LAST race of the season.

That is what being a champion is about: Making the most of things.

As much as I really supported Hamilton in '08, I now feel sorry for Massa. He will likely never be close to winning a Championship again. Just like Webber. For those drivers, they had bad luck. Quite a lot of races and championships are decided on luck. Deal with it. It's part of racing.

Vettel was unbelievable. I'm certain he would've held off Alonso and Button, but a level-headed approach from the team would have been to bring him in shouldn't the tires have lasted. Vettel made the gamble to stay out. He is now supreme. Last year was his breaking-in year.But he was also good in a Torro Rosso! Why is so hard for many to accept that though that kid might look and act childish on the outside, but on the inside he is as determined and level-headed as the greatest? Think of this: In the 2004 German BMW Championship Vettel won 18 out of 20 races and the other two he finished on the podium. He was what 16?

We could very well see him repeat that feat this year.

[F1er]

I see Billie has avoided my question again

How can you blame Lewis for not giving space to Webber but not blame Massa for doing the same? How can Lewis be at fault both times?

[vlad]

Peng,

I was not saying that Vettel was controlling luck through magic powers. I was saying that Vettel took advantage of the luck and turned it into a race win. How many times have drivers like Button done the same thing? (Or Alonso in Singapore? )

That is the quality of a World Champion: the ability to read situations and turn it into the best possible scenario. All the greatest drivers have got lucky in their life. Just think - Massa would be a World Champion right now and Hamilton - very unlucky had Glock's tires not given up on him on the LAST corner, of the LAST lap, of the LAST race of the season.

That is what being a champion is about: Making the most of things.

As much as I really supported Hamilton in '08, I now feel sorry for Massa. He will likely never be close to winning a Championship again. Just like Webber. For those drivers, they had bad luck. Quite a lot of races and championships are decided on luck. Deal with it. It's part of racing.

Vettel was unbelievable. I'm certain he would've held off Alonso and Button, but a level-headed approach from the team would have been to bring him in shouldn't the tires have lasted. Vettel made the gamble to stay out. He is now supreme. Last year was his breaking-in year.But he was also good in a Torro Rosso! Why is so hard for many to accept that though that kid might look and act childish on the outside, but on the inside he is as determined and level-headed as the greatest? Think of this: In the 2004 German BMW Championship Vettel won 18 out of 20 races and the other two he finished on the podium. He was what 16?

We could very well see him repeat that feat this year.

Exactly!

He didn't have that bad luck like last season, he looks more confident than ever. He keeps defeating Webber, as his teammate, and all the other drivers on the grid. Red Bull is not so fast like everybody think. It is fast, but not that much. McLaren is already there on the fight, soon maybe even Ferrari. The thing is, he keeps driving without a single mistake. The only race he hasn't won this season is the one where the team wrongly calculated with the tyres. And that's it. He is DOMINATING, isn't that obvious. This is his year. I'm hoping he'll keep doing a magnificent work like he has done so far!

[Hammer278]

I see Billie has avoided my question again

How can you blame Lewis for not giving space to Webber but not blame Massa for doing the same? How can Lewis be at fault both times?

Maybe cuz he's black! That's what Ali G says....

[billindenver]

I see Billie has avoided my question again

How can you blame Lewis for not giving space to Webber but not blame Massa for doing the same? How can Lewis be at fault both times?

Two completely different situations with nothing in common other than a collision. Tell me this fanboy, how can you say your love interst was the victim in both instances? Further, how many other drivers have been involved in SO MANY dramas? How many mistakes does he have to make for a fanboy like you to realize his hero makes a LOT OF MISTAKES? How many championships does he have to throw away? How many parked or in full flight cars does he have to collide with? How many times does he have to insult half the field before you realize there are reasons people dislike him?

Climb in a car, pull a five point tight and take a corner In a pack....then come calling on me with your opinion.

[The Ram]

Right now Lewis should just screw it all and do what he wants.. it doesn't change a thing, he is always wrong.

[F1er]

I see Billie has avoided my question again

How can you blame Lewis for not giving space to Webber but not blame Massa for doing the same? How can Lewis be at fault both times?

Two completely different situations with nothing in common other than a collision. Tell me this fanboy, how can you say your love interst was the victim in both instances? Further, how many other drivers have been involved in SO MANY dramas? How many mistakes does he have to make for a fanboy like you to realize his hero makes a LOT OF MISTAKES? How many championships does he have to throw away? How many parked or in full flight cars does he have to collide with? How many times does he have to insult half the field before you realize there are reasons people dislike him?

Climb in a car, pull a five point tight and take a corner In a pack....then come calling on me with your opinion.

Well fanboys like me say they're both racing incidents,something you cant seem to comprehend.

[Jensonb]

...Lewis was alongside Massa as Massa was going into the corner. It was Lewis's responsibility to anticipate Massa closing the space.

But Massa didn't simply "close the space". He started out that way, but there's a point about halfway in where he clearly turned further into Lewis.

The evidence is there clearly to see yet they want to turn the other cheek. Notice how they don't want to admit that Massa made 2 turns to defend which is illegal.

I've just been passively reading over this thread without much compulsion to respond, but I haven't seen anyone set you straight on this issue and it's bugging the hell out of me.

"You can only make one turn to defend"

That rule doesn't mean what you apparently think it means. Drivers are banned from making more than one "move" (not turn, the difference may seem subtle, but it is significant) to defend their line. This applies to the straights, not the turns (Hence "move" not "turn"). Drivers are free to take whatever line though a turn they feel is fastest, and use any amount of steering inputs to make it round.

Further, drivers ahead in the turns have right of way - meaning their choice of racing line is theirs indisputably, the driver behind must either follow or find another line. Only if the two cars are completely side-by-side can the attacking car usurp the racing line.

The reason for this is simple - if the attacking car is still behind then the defending car is less likely to be able to see and judge the spacing accurately. Thus it is the attacking car's responsibility to ensure the turn is safely travelled. Secondly, a leading car has seniority over an attacking car - this is a race, people do not have to allow others to pass them unless it is to be lapped - and therefore has the right to try and maintain their position.

The reason for the one-move on the straight rule is to prevent weaving, which the FIA has deemed dangerous. This was a controversial decision on their part, criticised by some of us fans - particularly, though far from exclusively, those who have actually gone racing - for being outlandishly strict. To be specific, this rule bans moving to break the tow (Weaving along the straight to prevent drafting AKA slipstreaming) and was added for political reasons rather than safety (Namely, it was added to ensure that the DRS Push-to-Pass Zone functioned as intended).

It supersedes an earlier, more sensible gentlemen's agreement amongst racing drivers to make only one move to defend in the braking zone. This agreement was to prevent cars from moving about in an area where change of direction is not only unexpected, but often dangerous as it is far harder to avoid someone who has moved onto your line in the braking zone, especially if they do so twice or more - the closer you are to the turn, the harder it becomes to take avoiding action and still make the turn.

And I'll do you one better. The rule is more specifically two distinct moves. It is applied in instances of making a move once (Say, to the left) and then another back in the other direction (In this case, to the right) or in instances of moving (say) left once, to the middle of the track, and then left again to the far left edge of the track. Simply making two steering inputs does not qualify as two moves to defend. It has to be two distinct movements and they both have to clearly be blocks - ie, moving into the path of the pursuing car.

In short, the rule about making two moves to defend does not apply here.

Thus ends our little lesson in overtaking theory and the FIA Formula One World Championship Rule Book for the 2011 Season.