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[darwin dali]

They did give SV the wrong tires (prime instead of the planned options) and SV lost some valuable time in the process. Thus, the team changed their strategy on the fly from 2 to 1 stops. And SV executed that strategy call in a very mature manner.

And he got amazingly lucky that everything that could possibly go in his favour did, turning a failed pitstop and botched strategy that was relying more on luck than anything else into a win.

You fail to realize in your analysis that SV as the runaway points leader does not necessarily need to win a race anymore. The worst he could do was stop a second time towards the end of the race if he got passed by FA and possibly JB and he would still end up third and add 15 points. So, that strategy call has to be viewed in that context as well. Under the circumstances, he drove an amazing race and got 57 laps out of a set of prime tires when the common wisdom is that they last only 30-35 laps.

I didn't say he needed to win the race he was in a comfortable 3rd place and deserved 3rd place, he won the race beating Alonso and Button who both drove much better than him because of luck.

Just an FYI i would have been happy with Alonso 1st, Button 2nd, Vettel 3rd because even though i thought Button drove better than both his pitstop strategy blew his chance at winning and i don't think he would have ever overtaken Alonso.

Ah ok, I just wanted to clarify what you said as you mentioned that his strategy was relying on luck, which is ludicrous. It was relying on SV driving an excellent race on 1 set of tires for 57 laps or possibly more, and it was based on skill and based on confidence on the streets of Monaco.

[F1er]

There is literally no way Lewis could have made that corner without hitting Massa short of Massa stopping on track. From that far inside, no F1 car could cut a tight enough radius. The corner belonged to Massa and he could take any line through it he pleased. The collision was Hamilton's fault, he was penalized....end of.

Didn't you blame Lewis for doing the same to Webber in Singapore? So make up your mind buddy! Which is it?

[Peng]

They did give SV the wrong tires (prime instead of the planned options) and SV lost some valuable time in the process. Thus, the team changed their strategy on the fly from 2 to 1 stops. And SV executed that strategy call in a very mature manner.

And he got amazingly lucky that everything that could possibly go in his favour did, turning a failed pitstop and botched strategy that was relying more on luck than anything else into a win.

You fail to realize in your analysis that SV as the runaway points leader does not necessarily need to win a race anymore. The worst he could do was stop a second time towards the end of the race if he got passed by FA and possibly JB and he would still end up third and add 15 points. So, that strategy call has to be viewed in that context as well. Under the circumstances, he drove an amazing race and got 57 laps out of a set of prime tires when the common wisdom is that they last only 30-35 laps.

I didn't say he needed to win the race he was in a comfortable 3rd place and deserved 3rd place, he won the race beating Alonso and Button who both drove much better than him because of luck.

Just an FYI i would have been happy with Alonso 1st, Button 2nd, Vettel 3rd because even though i thought Button drove better than both his pitstop strategy blew his chance at winning and i don't think he would have ever overtaken Alonso.

Ah ok, I just wanted to clarify what you said as you mentioned that his strategy was relying on luck, which is ludicrous. It was relying on SV driving an excellent race on 1 set of tires for 57 laps or possibly more, and it was based on skill and based on confidence on the streets of Monaco.

It was 68 laps wasn't it? either way a strategy based on that especially when having to defend your position is ridiculous and still based on luck, we don't know what would have happened but either those tyres are much more durable than any of the drivers realise and he could have made 68 laps without falling off the cliff or he would hit that cliff and lost the position, numerous safety cars helped him nurse the tyres better and the red flag pretty much gave him the win at a time when he was very close to being overtaken.

The only way he wasn't being overtaken is if those tyres had lasted for 68 laps and from all the data red bull had on the tyres and previous experience with those tyres in practice they weren't so it was a go for it and pray strategy from red bull, as i said they always had the backup strategy of 3rd place or probably 2nd was probably the plan before Alonso made his strategy work but i don't think even red bull expected to win the race.

So again he got insanely lucky doesn't matter if he did 57 laps on 1 set of tyres he didn't do the 68 he aimed at and the 57 he did do he got alot of help on.

[Peng]

There is literally no way Lewis could have made that corner without hitting Massa short of Massa stopping on track. From that far inside, no F1 car could cut a tight enough radius. The corner belonged to Massa and he could take any line through it he pleased. The collision was Hamilton's fault, he was penalized....end of.

Didn't you blame Lewis for doing the same to Webber in Singapore? So make up your mind buddy! Which is it?

Its Bill :p Lewis could donate millions to charity and Bill would find a reason to why Lewis is evil.

[F1er]

From the video, Webber took a tighter line in than Massa.

Are you sure?

That is precisely my point, look at how Lewis's car is angled compared to Massa, Massa's turning in to make the corner, Lewis was going almost straight..

How is Webber's line tighter than Massa'a though?

Massa clearly turned into him and Lewis was not going straight,look at his steering input.

[F1er]

There is literally no way Lewis could have made that corner without hitting Massa short of Massa stopping on track. From that far inside, no F1 car could cut a tight enough radius. The corner belonged to Massa and he could take any line through it he pleased. The collision was Hamilton's fault, he was penalized....end of.

Didn't you blame Lewis for doing the same to Webber in Singapore? So make up your mind buddy! Which is it?

Its Bill .

Don't know him don't care to. I just can't stand the smell of bulsh!t.

[darwin dali]

numerous safety cars helped him nurse the tyres better and the red flag pretty much gave him the win at a time when he was very close to being overtaken.

Numerous?

Definition of NUMEROUS
: consisting of great numbers of units or individuals <born into a numerous family>; also : many <received numerous complaints>

[acosmichippo]

It was 68 laps wasn't it? either way a strategy based on that especially when having to defend your position is ridiculous and still based on luck, we don't know what would have happened but either those tyres are much more durable than any of the drivers realise and he could have made 68 laps without falling off the cliff or he would hit that cliff and lost the position, numerous safety cars helped him nurse the tyres better and the red flag pretty much gave him the win at a time when he was very close to being overtaken.

The only way he wasn't being overtaken is if those tyres had lasted for 68 laps and from all the data red bull had on the tyres and previous experience with those tyres in practice they weren't so it was a go for it and pray strategy from red bull, as i said they always had the backup strategy of 3rd place or probably 2nd was probably the plan before Alonso made his strategy work but i don't think even red bull expected to win the race.

So again he got insanely lucky doesn't matter if he did 57 laps on 1 set of tyres he didn't do the 68 he aimed at and the 57 he did do he got alot of help on.

I'm not convinced RBR planned on Seb driving 60+ laps on Soft tires. At least not right out of that pit stop. I think it is more likely that as they were approaching the calculated time for the second pit, he probably told them that the tires were good enough to keep going. At that point it became a gamble: do we pit now and surely end up in P3, or do we roll the dice (in Monaco where track position is everything) and possibly win?

[darwin dali]

It was 68 laps wasn't it? either way a strategy based on that especially when having to defend your position is ridiculous and still based on luck, we don't know what would have happened but either those tyres are much more durable than any of the drivers realise and he could have made 68 laps without falling off the cliff or he would hit that cliff and lost the position, numerous safety cars helped him nurse the tyres better and the red flag pretty much gave him the win at a time when he was very close to being overtaken.

The only way he wasn't being overtaken is if those tyres had lasted for 68 laps and from all the data red bull had on the tyres and previous experience with those tyres in practice they weren't so it was a go for it and pray strategy from red bull, as i said they always had the backup strategy of 3rd place or probably 2nd was probably the plan before Alonso made his strategy work but i don't think even red bull expected to win the race.

So again he got insanely lucky doesn't matter if he did 57 laps on 1 set of tyres he didn't do the 68 he aimed at and the 57 he did do he got alot of help on.

I'm not convinced RBR planned on Seb driving 60+ laps on Soft tires. At least not right out of that pit stop. I think it is more likely that as they were approaching the calculated time for the second pit, he probably told them that the tires were good enough to keep going. At that point it became a gamble: do we pit now and surely end up in P3, or do we roll the dice (in Monaco where track position is everything) and possibly win?

[Peng]

It was 68 laps wasn't it? either way a strategy based on that especially when having to defend your position is ridiculous and still based on luck, we don't know what would have happened but either those tyres are much more durable than any of the drivers realise and he could have made 68 laps without falling off the cliff or he would hit that cliff and lost the position, numerous safety cars helped him nurse the tyres better and the red flag pretty much gave him the win at a time when he was very close to being overtaken.

The only way he wasn't being overtaken is if those tyres had lasted for 68 laps and from all the data red bull had on the tyres and previous experience with those tyres in practice they weren't so it was a go for it and pray strategy from red bull, as i said they always had the backup strategy of 3rd place or probably 2nd was probably the plan before Alonso made his strategy work but i don't think even red bull expected to win the race.

So again he got insanely lucky doesn't matter if he did 57 laps on 1 set of tyres he didn't do the 68 he aimed at and the 57 he did do he got alot of help on.

I'm not convinced RBR planned on Seb driving 60+ laps on Soft tires. At least not right out of that pit stop. I think it is more likely that as they were approaching the calculated time for the second pit, he probably told them that the tires were good enough to keep going. At that point it became a gamble: do we pit now and surely end up in P3, or do we roll the dice (in Monaco where track position is everything) and possibly win?

Well i was just attempting to give some kind of reasoning why they might of tried a ridiculous strategy that should never have won them the race but people seem to think it was Vettel's amazing skills of controlling luck that won him it :p

Everything that needed to happen for him to win from a drive which should have landed him in 3rd place on any normal day did happen and so he won the race, if that isn't down to luck i have no idea what red bull did to control the outcome of that race, we should take it to 1 of the local conspiracy theorists and maybe they can find out.

[acosmichippo]

I agree luck was definitely involved. I'm just saying they probably had some valid reason for their strategy.

[Bubbie]

First off. Glad to see/hear that Perez, Rosberg and Petrov are all okay. Especially in the case of Rosberg and Perez both scary accidents which could have been much worse. They need to fix the area of the track coming out of the tunnel, because I even saw the leading guys having small blips of loss of traction in that location.

Monaco needs to be fixed or scrapped from the calendar. I know it is glitzy and glamorous, but it is not exciting racing. The track is too confined and the areas where it is nice and wide the drivers need to avoid bumps or terrible marbles offline.

Vettel ran a stunning race. The last couple races we have seen him deal with some massive pressure in the form of the other two most talented drivers on the grid (Hammy and Alo). He didn't crack and drove an amazing tactical race putting together laps where he managed the corners he needed to manage. This is skill, he may be lucky, but you can't take away that he was skilled.

Good job to the Red Bull strategy team after the cock-ups of the pitstops. To leave him out there with enough room to pit if needbe (I think he had a minute before the 4th place of Sutil) the gamble to stay out was an easy one. I also liked the thinking when Jenson was chasing on the Super-Softs and they were just waiting for him to burn them out.

I think I gotta say Massa should have yielded. Watching it again and again it is clear he tries to block by turning in on Hamilton, when Hamilton had telegraphed the move way ahead of time and could have made the pass. It still isn't clear what happened in the tunnel. Looks like Lewis just got a better run out of the corner and parked himself on the racing line, which left Massa nowhere to go except behind him or on the marbles.

Not a bad race, but not up there with the rest of them this year.

[Bubbie]

Everything that needed to happen for him to win from a drive which should have landed him in 3rd place on any normal day did happen and so he won the race, if that isn't down to luck i have no idea what red bull did to control the outcome of that race, we should take it to 1 of the local conspiracy theorists and maybe they can find out.

Obviously you watched a different broadcast from me. Because on the BBC feed they clearly kept pointing out that Monaco is all about track position, not the battle over tires like on any other track. I call that good thinking, not luck. Even without the red flag, he may have been able to hold off Alo and Button, especially if they started to duel themselves.

[What's Burning?]

What was there to lose, the worst he was going to get was 3rd, they gambled, he was able to execute, they won.

[stonemonkey]

....... we should take it to 1 of the local conspiracy theorists and maybe they can find out.

It was Alguersuari's Toro Rosso Going into the back of Hamilton that caused the crash that brought out the red flag, Hamilton said before the race to watch out for the Toro Rosso's helping Red Bull.