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[Bear]

Hello all, long time reader first time poster.

This is my first season following an f1 season from scratch for a long time, I usually pick it up half way in.

I hear alot of talk about the marbles on the track, I understand what they are and all, but why don't officials remove them after each practice/qualy? instead of leaving them there to cause potential crashes? or is it to punish people off the racing line?

Also when brundle and coulthard refer to the dirty side of the track, they refer to the marbles, or is that dust/oil particles from other races/unused track?

Also why are people suggesting a 1 stop race is possible for monaco when the others were 3-5 stops?

Sorry I'm not completely knowledgeable about F1, very entertaining though

[IceManpjn]

I hear alot of talk about the marbles on the track, I understand what they are and all, but why don't officials remove them after each practice/qualy? instead of leaving them there to cause potential crashes? or is it to punish people off the racing line?

I don't think it's intentional to punish for going off the race line. Going off the race line is necessary when overtaking, so if we're to punish for going off the line, we're punishing overtaking. They're sort of inadvertently punished for it as it is, as the dirty parts of the track suck, but I don't see it being deliberate.

Also when brundle and coulthard refer to the dirty side of the track, they refer to the marbles, or is that dust/oil particles from other races/unused track?

You have different commentators from me here in the States, but I would imagine they mean what our commentators mean - the dirty side of the track is the side with all the marbles.

Sorry I'm not completely knowledgeable about F1, very entertaining though

I've been following since the start of the 2008 season and I'm still learning all the time.

[LewEngBridewell]

Marbles are fragments from the tyres that are deposited as they wear down throughout the course of a race / session, and also collected debris that builds up. Removing them during a race/session is impractical. Marbles are nothing new anyway, it's just there are more of them this year, as the Pirelli tyres are made to wear down faster.

Fernando Alonso can tell you all about hitting marbles with this incident dating back to the Monaco Grand Prix of 2004.
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xFiIBjWWw94[/youtube]

(http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xFiIBjWWw94)

[darwin dali]

Marbles are fragments from the tyres that are deposited as they wear down throughout the course of a race / session, and also collected debris that builds up. Removing them during a race/session is impractical. Marbles are nothing new anyway, it's just there are more of them this year, as the Pirelli tyres are made to wear down faster.

Fernando Alonso can tell you all about hitting marbles with this incident dating back to the Monaco Grand Prix of 2004.
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xFiIBjWWw94[/youtube]

(http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xFiIBjWWw94)

The marbles (or clag) are also different this year, bigger and 'chewier' - the Pirellis don't rubber in the track as much, they shed like a retriever.

[Hammer278]

The OP asked why don't the officials clear up the marbles after each practice/qually....well I thought that they do? The track looks quite clean at the start of qual and race...unless I'm completely mistaken. Whenever I attended the Msian GP, they had these huge 'vacuum trucks' which go around the track and clean it up before practice/qual starts.

[spankyham]

The OP asked why don't the officials clear up the marbles after each practice/qually....well I thought that they do? The track looks quite clean at the start of qual and race...unless I'm completely mistaken. Whenever I attended the Msian GP, they had these huge 'vacuum trucks' which go around the track and clean it up before practice/qual starts.

Correct, the track is cleaned after each session. When they clean the track, they clean the marbles and stuff like that, but they don't clean the rubber that has been put down on the racing line. They will clean oil etc, for that they will use something like cement dust then sweep that up.

There is also an inspection before each session, this is done in a car, however, each day and also before the race they also walk the track.

[madbrad]

Experts here may correct anything they read in the following passage. It's what I understand but not what I know for sure:
The "clean side" is the area that is "rubbered in" having more grip by virtue of the continuous running of cars on that line, and having no loose debris or dust on it because of all the cars running there all the time. The rest of the reack is "dirty" by virtue of not having any rubberizing and having random dust and debris left there, not getting blown off because no one ever drives there. Even without any marbles, it's the "dirty" side and it has a lot less grip, and you get "punished" for driving on it by sliding to the outside if it is a corner.
There's an accepted "correct" driving line down the start/finish straight, which is usually on the odd numbered grid positions. So they do talk about being on the good or bad side for the start. If you get pole you usually get better grip for starting than the guy on the #2 slot. On occasion the opposite is true. You may have heard of the guy on pole complaining that the grid is backward; he was essentially "punished" for getting pole.
Other formulae run on the track during the weekend and they have such different dynamics that they have totally different driving lines from F1 and even have different corners that they are likely to spin off of, and different corners at which they pass. I'm not sure if what they do is enough to affect the running of the F1 cars, but they definitely clean off some spots that would normally be "dirty" for the F1 cars.

[smokin]

Experts here may correct anything they read in the following passage. It's what I understand but not what I know for sure:
The "clean side" is the area that is "rubbered in" having more grip by virtue of the continuous running of cars on that line, and having no loose debris or dust on it because of all the cars running there all the time. The rest of the reack is "dirty" by virtue of not having any rubberizing and having random dust and debris left there, not getting blown off because no one ever drives there. Even without any marbles, it's the "dirty" side and it has a lot less grip, and you get "punished" for driving on it by sliding to the outside if it is a corner.
There's an accepted "correct" driving line down the start/finish straight, which is usually on the odd numbered grid positions. So they do talk about being on the good or bad side for the start. If you get pole you usually get better grip for starting than the guy on the #2 slot. On occasion the opposite is true. You may have heard of the guy on pole complaining that the grid is backward; he was essentially "punished" for getting pole.
Other formulae run on the track during the weekend and they have such different dynamics that they have totally different driving lines from F1 and even have different corners that they are likely to spin off of, and different corners at which they pass. I'm not sure if what they do is enough to affect the running of the F1 cars, but they definitely clean off some spots that would normally be "dirty" for the F1 cars.

Good summary. One thing I'd add is that the marbles tend to collect at corners where the sideways abrasion chews up the tyres more (so more marbles created) and centripetal force throws them to the outside of the curve.

[Bear]

Thanks for the replies guys, This makes alot more sense now.

Towards the end of the turkey that huge left hander (7-8 i think) had so many marbles I presumed they didn't clean them ever, but what smokin said must have been particularly true on that corner, Crazy that much rubber debris after 50 laps was left on track.

Does any particular tyre rubber in more than others? Eg Hard lasts longer (sometimes) so less marbles? or the same?

Looking forward to Monaco qualy

[acosmichippo]

I'm pretty sure the hard tires lose just as much rubber as Softs through a full lifespan, but that happens to be a little longer than soft tires, so they just don't marble as quickly.

[spankyham]

Good shot of the clean up and also just how bad the marbles actually are.

[darwin dali]

Good shot of the clean up and also just how bad the marbles actually are.

[What's Burning?]

Any idea when that pic was taken because that is very likely contributor to the Perez crash.

[Bear]

Erm... wow! Thats alot.

I've never noticed them before this season, but how much does it contribute to mistakes?

Rosberg crashed towards the start of P3 in a very similar crash so maybe its just that corner is an accident black spot.

Still very interesting!

[vlad]

I think the amount of marbles there is even greater, because it's a closed space, they can't fly away from the track.