FORUMula1.com - F1 Forum

Discuss the sport you love with other motorsport fans

Formula One related discussion.
#256972
Nice read over at GPupdate. I had the same thought last weekend when I kept seeing a sea of empty grandstands in the background.
Crowd numbers for Sunday’s Spanish Grand Prix marked the lowest since the turn of the new millennium, with just over 78,000 people entering the Circuit de Catalunya on race day. This figure is almost half the Montmeló venue’s best of over 140,000 in 2007. So just why aren’t we attracted to Formula 1 races like we used to be?

When it joined the F1 circus 20 years ago, Barcelona was easy if you happened to be a spectator; brand-new access roads, plenty of parking spaces and a manageable flow of fans in and out of the circuit.

Fast-forward to 2005 and we were faced with traffic jams which prevented some people from even getting into the circuit just to see the race. Why? The Alonso factor. After a sell-out in 2006, yet more seating was added for 2007 as prices rose and attendances soared to over 140,000. The atmosphere was electric.

However, the sudden drop comes through a combination of things. Not only do we have difficult financial times on our hands, but no winning car at Alonso’s disposal in 2008 and 2009 certainly didn’t help things and any last-minute ticket opportunities for this weekend won’t have been assisted by Red Bull’s domination of Friday – telling locals that Alonso, 1.1 seconds off the pace, would not be in a winning position come Sunday.

Which leads us to a universal predicament which is becoming all too familiar in our sport – ticket prices. Circuits are paying substantial sums to Bernie Ecclestone in order to host a Grand Prix, which means if I turned up to Barcelona with a family of four wanting to sit in the top section of main grandstand on race day, I’d have to be digging out an enormous 1,800 euros. Yes, that’s 450 euros (just over 390 pounds) per person for a three-day ticket, just to catch a glimpse of our heroes on the grid, the start and all of the pit-stop action.

You certainly can’t blame the Circuit de Catalunya and this is only one example. As a business, they are making the most of their investment in much new seating, off-track entertainment, caterers, ground staff and advertising to name just a few. But if I wanted to sit in exactly the same main grandstand for next month’s MotoGP race, it would cost me ‘only’ 80 euros per person, with a special half price offer for children aged 14 and under. How can that be right?

What this does highlight is one big general problem for Formula 1. Ask yourself this: how many drivers would be happy to stand on a podium at an empty venue? The sport simply wouldn’t function without the fans, it couldn’t. For this year, Barcelona even removed the large stand up the hill to Campsa corner in a bid to encourage more spectators for what is now a cheaper, grass section.

So this is where the teams, the FIA and the commercial rights holder need to get their heads together. We need better promotion from governments for the host cities – a month or two before the event, at least - and a good reason to attract Fred Bloggs or John Smith, who wouldn’t have attended otherwise. And, most of all, much lower ticket prices. Otherwise we’ll stay in front of the tele, won’t we?

Circuit de Catalunya F1 Sunday attendances, 2000-2011:
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
2011 78,130
2010 98,113
2009 92,430
2008 132,600
2007 140,700
2006 131,200
2005 115,900
2004 108,300
2003 96,000
2002 98,000
2001 91,000
2000 79,000
User avatar
By FRAFPDD
#256975
What case study uses only one circuit as a subject.

I think silverstones always got bigger.
#256981
What case study uses only one circuit as a subject.

I think silverstones always got bigger.


I would imagine that "Team UK" ie Mclaren/Lewis/Button has captured the hearts of non die hard fans who are just after a flag to follow. Probably the same people who play tennis once a year when wimbledon is on.
#256983
What case study uses only one circuit as a subject.

I think silverstones always got bigger.


The article was written to address Barcelona, but you're choosing not to look at the bigger point. There were empty seats in China, there were LOADS of empty seats in Turkey, we don't need to mention the Middle east GPs. Thankfully there are precious few seats in Monaco, so that will also sell out and according to your argument, there is no problem that needs to be addressed.
User avatar
By FRAFPDD
#256990
What case study uses only one circuit as a subject.

I think silverstones always got bigger.


The article was written to address Barcelona, but you're choosing not to look at the bigger point. There were empty seats in China, there were LOADS of empty seats in Turkey, we don't need to mention the Middle east GPs. Thankfully there are precious few seats in Monaco, so that will also sell out and according to your argument, there is no problem that needs to be addressed.



Paragraphs 5-8 are adressing F1 in general, and F1 in general doesnt have a problem.

Turkey, Spain, China.Thats 3/20 is it not?

Germany is sold out, Britain is sold out, Italy is sold out, Brazil is sold out, Singapore is sold out, belgium is sold out, canada is sold out.

All in all yes, my argument is that there is no problem in need of adressing, that is, that article is so poorly structured that i cant make out what the argument is, sometimes its barcelona, sometimes its ticket prices, sometimes its circuits needing to pay bernie, its inconsistent and scaremongering.
#256993
Umm...the economy is still booming, right? No idea why the Spanish (who are currently having massive demonstrations and protests because their country is in such a bad state) wouldn't want to fork out that couple hundred Euros to see something that they could watch for free...
#256995
I think it is also a case of (as it was when F1 returned to the US)

"what are these cars?"
"who is this midget that wants us to hand over a fortune to see a motor race from a series that I don't follow"

Or as I imagined it to be in the US (I am sure some of the locals will disagree with me)

"They look like Indy Cars but it costs me a lot to go and see them, and I don't know any of the drivers"
#256996
What case study uses only one circuit as a subject.

I think silverstones always got bigger.


The article was written to address Barcelona, but you're choosing not to look at the bigger point. There were empty seats in China, there were LOADS of empty seats in Turkey, we don't need to mention the Middle east GPs. Thankfully there are precious few seats in Monaco, so that will also sell out and according to your argument, there is no problem that needs to be addressed.



Paragraphs 5-8 are adressing F1 in general, and F1 in general doesnt have a problem.

Turkey, Spain, China.Thats 3/20 is it not?

Germany is sold out, Britain is sold out, Italy is sold out, Brazil is sold out, Singapore is sold out, belgium is sold out, canada is sold out.

All in all yes, my argument is that there is no problem in need of adressing, that is, that article is so poorly structured that i cant make out what the argument is, sometimes its barcelona, sometimes its ticket prices, sometimes its circuits needing to pay bernie, its inconsistent and scaremongering.


And this is coming from the self professed poor man?

Melbourne, Germany, Spa all extremely underwater financially where it's not profitable to host a GP, I'm sure with a little digging I can come up with a few more to the list. So even being sold out doesn't mean profitability. I'm not the author's English teacher so I won't comment on that, I posted it here because it resonated with something I saw in Barcelona which was lots and lots and lots of empty seats. So you tell me what entertainment business is doing just fine with unsold seats. Bernie's clients are the countries that host races, not you or I and he could give two sh!ts if no one attends as long as he's getting paid.
User avatar
By FRAFPDD
#256998
What case study uses only one circuit as a subject.

I think silverstones always got bigger.


The article was written to address Barcelona, but you're choosing not to look at the bigger point. There were empty seats in China, there were LOADS of empty seats in Turkey, we don't need to mention the Middle east GPs. Thankfully there are precious few seats in Monaco, so that will also sell out and according to your argument, there is no problem that needs to be addressed.



Paragraphs 5-8 are adressing F1 in general, and F1 in general doesnt have a problem.

Turkey, Spain, China.Thats 3/20 is it not?

Germany is sold out, Britain is sold out, Italy is sold out, Brazil is sold out, Singapore is sold out, belgium is sold out, canada is sold out.

All in all yes, my argument is that there is no problem in need of adressing, that is, that article is so poorly structured that i cant make out what the argument is, sometimes its barcelona, sometimes its ticket prices, sometimes its circuits needing to pay bernie, its inconsistent and scaremongering.


And this is coming from the self professed poor man?

Melbourne, Germany, Spa all extremely underwater financially where it's not profitable to host a GP, I'm sure with a little digging I can come up with a few more to the list. So even being sold out doesn't mean profitability. I'm not the author's English teacher so I won't comment on that, I posted it here because it resonated with something I saw in Barcelona which was lots and lots and lots of empty seats. So you tell me what entertainment business is doing just fine with unsold seats. Bernie's clients are the countries that host races, not you or I and he could give two sh!ts if no one attends as long as he's getting paid.


1. I dont remember mentioning being poor? Im from a middle class family, but i myself am an adult now and unemployed, if thats what i mentioned before?... Moreover i dont know what relation mine or anyone elses wealth has to do with your argument, not that im offended, i just dont understand how it links into it.

2. So what youve inferered from this rabble of miscommunicated nonsense about the current state of F1 in a lot of aspects, is that it boils down to supporting your predetermined view that bernie is ruining it? Im sorry, i genuinely am, but dont follow whats going on here? What is being called into question here?

Bernies a greedy b*stard? Why is spain losing fans? why should gps pay for circuits? why have we got turkey and china on the calendar? Why are good tracks hosting gp's when they are at financial losses? Im poor :rofl: ?
#257001
1. I dont remember mentioning being poor? Im from a middle class family, but i myself am an adult now and unemployed, if thats what i mentioned before?... Moreover i dont know what relation mine or anyone elses wealth has to do with your argument, not that im offended, i just dont understand how it links into it.




Yes you've mentioned it many many times so how could I forget? If you can't see the dichotomy of your argument, then it's not my task to continue to illustrate it... BTW, Canada is far from sold out.

2. So what youve inferered from this rabble of miscommunicated nonsense about the current state of F1 in a lot of aspects, is that it boils down to supporting your predetermined view that bernie is ruining it? Im sorry, i genuinely am, but dont follow whats going on here? What is being called into question here?


Empty seats... perhaps I should have attached the pictures.

Bernies a greedy b*stard? Why is spain losing fans? why should gps pay for circuits? why have we got turkey and china on the calendar? Why are good tracks hosting gp's when they are at financial losses? Im poor :rofl: ?


Unsupportable economic models; I've got nothing against Bernie, he's a capitalist's dream and he's helped to make the sport the world wide affair it is today, You can choose to make circular counterarguments all you want, you're still not addressing the empty seats and the GPs losing money every year, that's currently an unsupportable economic model. But remember, Monaco is sold out, enjoy your stay.
User avatar
By FRAFPDD
#257002
1. I dont remember mentioning being poor? Im from a middle class family, but i myself am an adult now and unemployed, if thats what i mentioned before?... Moreover i dont know what relation mine or anyone elses wealth has to do with your argument, not that im offended, i just dont understand how it links into it.




Yes you've mentioned it many many times so how could I forget? If you can't see the dichotomy of your argument, then it's not my task to continue to illustrate it... BTW, Canada is far from sold out.

2. So what youve inferered from this rabble of miscommunicated nonsense about the current state of F1 in a lot of aspects, is that it boils down to supporting your predetermined view that bernie is ruining it? Im sorry, i genuinely am, but dont follow whats going on here? What is being called into question here?


Empty seats... perhaps I should have attached the pictures.

Bernies a greedy b*stard? Why is spain losing fans? why should gps pay for circuits? why have we got turkey and china on the calendar? Why are good tracks hosting gp's when they are at financial losses? Im poor :rofl: ?


Unsupportable economic models; I've got nothing against Bernie, he's a capitalist's dream and he's helped to make the sport the world wide affair it is today, You can choose to make circular counterarguments all you want, you're still not addressing the empty seats and the GPs losing money every year, that's currently an unsupportable economic model. But remember, Monaco is sold out, enjoy your stay.



I cant make counter-arguments to an argument i dont yet know exists? Everything ive said thus far has been to decipher what your failing to convey, ive, youve finally managed to highlight what your actual beef is, and to that i have no opinion and thus no answer.......

Also, no i dont speak and mention "many many" times, about being poor, not least because im not poor, starving kids in sudan and sweatshop workers in shanghai are poor, not me. So :thumbdown: for you on that. I had a wordy convo with SennaVille about where i live once, its an impoverished place in many parts.
#257023
The 1st year the Turkish GP was on, I went to see it, why because it was cheaper bear in mind that I live about 30 minutes from Silverstone, it was cheaper to fly to Turkey and get a hotel and a 3 day pass than it was to get to Silverstone, camp the night and get a grandstand ticket for race day.
#257039
The 1st year the Turkish GP was on, I went to see it, why because it was cheaper bear in mind that I live about 30 minutes from Silverstone, it was cheaper to fly to Turkey and get a hotel and a 3 day pass than it was to get to Silverstone, camp the night and get a grandstand ticket for race day.

:yikes::yikes:
#257040
The 1st year the Turkish GP was on, I went to see it, why because it was cheaper bear in mind that I live about 30 minutes from Silverstone, it was cheaper to fly to Turkey and get a hotel and a 3 day pass than it was to get to Silverstone, camp the night and get a grandstand ticket for race day.

:yikes::yikes:


It was a bit harsh

See our F1 related articles too!