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#254951
No!!!!!!!!!! But I don't want to see 2007 again because one driver can't beat the other and tries all kinds of sh!t to do so.


Yeah, but that requires team orders. Or just relying on a huge amount of luck (that the actions of one driver don't negatively effect another).


Ok whatever man. Or maybe it requires a sit down amongst man to leave their differences aside. If you're trying to justify ferrari's actions than f*** that,go debate someone else.You clearly don't get what I'm saying!
#254952
Vapting i'm sorry to say this but you'd have to pretty dumb to think Lewis would do 3 stops the way he was pushing. McLaren PR is on damage control because a lot of fans are pissed by the results!


How the hell does telling fans he started on a three stop but changed to 4 when really he started on a 4 stopper help? The 4 stop strategy looked to be the right one. So, they also thought that up midrace when Lewis was told to go to "plan b"?

Lewis was pushing? Heck every other race it seems we get a radio message broadcast telling Lewis to go easier on the tyres.
#254953
Some of Whitmarsh's thoughts (soz if repost):

McLaren team principal Martin Whitmarsh warned Lewis Hamilton to curb his aggression after he finished fourth in the Turkish Grand Prix.
Hamilton made an error trying to pass Mark Webber on the first lap and dropped to sixth place behind his team-mate Jenson Button. The pair ran close for much of the first stint, with Hamilton passing Button on lap six but then losing the place again a lap later as his first set of tyres went off. Whitmarsh said that with this season's Pirelli tyres Hamilton would have to choose his battles.
"We want Lewis to attack but sometimes it does not pay off," Whitmarsh said. "If you look at Lewis's race pace it was OK later in the race but the tyres are so delicate and if you scrap with others including your own team-mate you will damage your tyres. In a race that critical you can't do that."
Hamilton himself admitted he had been overeager on the first lap of the race, and that it compromised the rest of his afternoon.
"If I hadn't damaged the tyres at the beginning, we would have been a lot closer," Hamilton said. "The beginning was a disaster so it was damage limitation really. The race is not won at the first two corners. I was impatient and that was my fault but it was a good recovery."
Ultimately it was a disappointed weekend for McLaren as Hamilton finished over half a minute behind third placed man Fernando Alonso, and Button struggled to sixth on a three-stop strategy. Whitmarsh said the lack of competitiveness was down to the team being unable to prepare all of the planned upgrades in time.
"Frankly we didn't bring all the developments we wanted here so we weren't quite as quick as we wanted to be, and when you're not you lose places," he told the BBC. "We didn't quite achieve what we wanted in qualifying, then if you then lose places at the start of the race it's very difficult to recover from that."


Kamui Kobayashi believes he could have finished as high as seventh in the Turkish Grand Prix had he not been forced to make an early second pitstop after picking up a puncture in a brush with Sebastien Buemi's Toro Rosso.

Sauber driver Kobayashi had started only 23rd following his fuel system problem right at the start of qualifying. But he managed to make a three-stop strategy work and rose as high as fifth in his first stint.

He felt that the early second stop then required after the collision cost him crucial ground and left him only able to salvage a single point for 10th.

"It was a lot of fun today, I really enjoyed this race," he said. "I found overtaking here a lot easier than last year in Hungary. Before the race I had promised Peter [Sauber] to score points today. It is just one point now because we lost so much time due to a puncture, which was the result of touching Sebastien Buemi when I overtook him. Otherwise I think I could have finished seventh and scored more points.

"The car was great and also the team had a very good strategy for me, so I want to thank them for this. In the end I had to be a bit careful and save the tyres, because the last stint was quite long with 20 laps, but it worked out well."

Sauber's other driver Sergio Perez recovered to 14th after breaking his front wing when he hit Pastor Maldonado's Williams on the opening lap.

"We had a good pace today and I clearly had a chance to score my first points," said the Mexican. "It is a real shame what happened on the first lap. Pastor Maldonado was braking quite hard in front of me and I couldn't avoid hitting him. I broke my front wing and had to pit. Apart from that I found it quite difficult to manage the tyres - both compounds actually - but the car was really good."


I didn't realise Kobayashi had this problem (amidst all the action!), pretty annoying...
#254954
Vapting i'm sorry to say this but you'd have to pretty dumb to think Lewis would do 3 stops the way he was pushing. McLaren PR is on damage control because a lot of fans are pissed by the results!


So you are saying that Lewis is lying and team orders are ok. Pretty much directly in conflict with everything you stated could be taken to the bank mere months ago. The radio call clearly put Lewis on plan B...which he now admits was a 4 stop strategy....but because you told us he was on a 4 from the beginning (taken to the bank)...we're supposed to believe you, and not the team or the driver. I take it you work for the team then?


Believe what you want :wavey::wavey:

in 58 lap Turkey track that includes turn8 which kills the tires ,that on a "normal" track dont last more than 13 laps. Do the math. It was already reported that tires in turkey could go off in 8-9-10 laps so I dunno what you all surprises about.
#254956
Some of Whitmarsh's thoughts (soz if repost):

McLaren team principal Martin Whitmarsh warned Lewis Hamilton to curb his aggression after he finished fourth in the Turkish Grand Prix.
Hamilton made an error trying to pass Mark Webber on the first lap and dropped to sixth place behind his team-mate Jenson Button. The pair ran close for much of the first stint, with Hamilton passing Button on lap six but then losing the place again a lap later as his first set of tyres went off. Whitmarsh said that with this season's Pirelli tyres Hamilton would have to choose his battles.
"We want Lewis to attack but sometimes it does not pay off," Whitmarsh said. "If you look at Lewis's race pace it was OK later in the race but the tyres are so delicate and if you scrap with others including your own team-mate you will damage your tyres. In a race that critical you can't do that."
Hamilton himself admitted he had been overeager on the first lap of the race, and that it compromised the rest of his afternoon.
"If I hadn't damaged the tyres at the beginning, we would have been a lot closer," Hamilton said. "The beginning was a disaster so it was damage limitation really. The race is not won at the first two corners. I was impatient and that was my fault but it was a good recovery."
Ultimately it was a disappointed weekend for McLaren as Hamilton finished over half a minute behind third placed man Fernando Alonso, and Button struggled to sixth on a three-stop strategy. Whitmarsh said the lack of competitiveness was down to the team being unable to prepare all of the planned upgrades in time.
"Frankly we didn't bring all the developments we wanted here so we weren't quite as quick as we wanted to be, and when you're not you lose places," he told the BBC. "We didn't quite achieve what we wanted in qualifying, then if you then lose places at the start of the race it's very difficult to recover from that."


Kamui Kobayashi believes he could have finished as high as seventh in the Turkish Grand Prix had he not been forced to make an early second pitstop after picking up a puncture in a brush with Sebastien Buemi's Toro Rosso.

Sauber driver Kobayashi had started only 23rd following his fuel system problem right at the start of qualifying. But he managed to make a three-stop strategy work and rose as high as fifth in his first stint.

He felt that the early second stop then required after the collision cost him crucial ground and left him only able to salvage a single point for 10th.

"It was a lot of fun today, I really enjoyed this race," he said. "I found overtaking here a lot easier than last year in Hungary. Before the race I had promised Peter [Sauber] to score points today. It is just one point now because we lost so much time due to a puncture, which was the result of touching Sebastien Buemi when I overtook him. Otherwise I think I could have finished seventh and scored more points.

"The car was great and also the team had a very good strategy for me, so I want to thank them for this. In the end I had to be a bit careful and save the tyres, because the last stint was quite long with 20 laps, but it worked out well."

Sauber's other driver Sergio Perez recovered to 14th after breaking his front wing when he hit Pastor Maldonado's Williams on the opening lap.

"We had a good pace today and I clearly had a chance to score my first points," said the Mexican. "It is a real shame what happened on the first lap. Pastor Maldonado was braking quite hard in front of me and I couldn't avoid hitting him. I broke my front wing and had to pit. Apart from that I found it quite difficult to manage the tyres - both compounds actually - but the car was really good."


I didn't realise Kobayashi had this problem (amidst all the action!), pretty annoying...



Two things,


First helps confirm my sneaky suspicion Whitmarsh isnt much of a Hamilton fan.


Second part on Kobayashi, i got in there first :wink: , nobody here cares cause theyre too busy arguing over whos virtual man-sausage is bigger.

Shame he punctured tyre, seriously finishing 10th with a sauber, starting DEAD last, whilst suffering a puncture, is far more impressive then starting 6 places from last, in a red bull, and finishing 3rd. Nobody seems to care though :confused:
#254959
HaHa so now Martin is saying Lewis should back off?

Ok here we go :whip::whip::whip: IMHO

Lewis made Alonso look average (as a rookie)
They hire Heiki (I'm sure they thought he was good) Lewis made him look like a Nascar driver
They hire Button,Lewis had no real trouble the first year and is making him look like a buffoon this year.

the PROBLEM...........Martin is in love :cloud9: with Button and we don't know Lewis' long term status.

2007 all over
#254960
Second part on Kobayashi, i got in there first :wink: , nobody here cares cause theyre too busy arguing over whos virtual man-sausage is bigger.

Shame he punctured tyre, seriously finishing 10th with a sauber, starting DEAD last, whilst suffering a puncture, is far more impressive then starting 6 places from last, in a red bull, and finishing 3rd. Nobody seems to care though :confused:


I care...! Couldn't be bothered trawling through all this arguing to find something actually relevant to the race though, apologies... :hehe: but yeah, being on to beat the Renaults from the back is very good, new tyres or not. And looking at the gaps, he could even have gotten close to Button! :yikes:
#254965
Second part on Kobayashi, i got in there first :wink: , nobody here cares cause theyre too busy arguing over whos virtual man-sausage is bigger.

Shame he punctured tyre, seriously finishing 10th with a sauber, starting DEAD last, whilst suffering a puncture, is far more impressive then starting 6 places from last, in a red bull, and finishing 3rd. Nobody seems to care though :confused:

I care...! Couldn't be bothered trawling through all this arguing to find something actually relevant to the race though, apologies... :hehe: but yeah, being on to beat the Renaults from the back is very good, new tyres or not. And looking at the gaps, he could even have gotten close to Button! :yikes:

I care too; I am most definitely a Kobayashi fan and I become a bigger fan every time I see him race; he doesn't make excuses, he gets his head down and gets the result; which is refreshing in a field of whinny overpaid F1 drivers, if more F1 drivers took a leaf out of the Japanese's book; F1 would be all the better for it!
#254966
Second part on Kobayashi, i got in there first :wink: , nobody here cares cause theyre too busy arguing over whos virtual man-sausage is bigger.

Shame he punctured tyre, seriously finishing 10th with a sauber, starting DEAD last, whilst suffering a puncture, is far more impressive then starting 6 places from last, in a red bull, and finishing 3rd. Nobody seems to care though :confused:

I care...! Couldn't be bothered trawling through all this arguing to find something actually relevant to the race though, apologies... :hehe: but yeah, being on to beat the Renaults from the back is very good, new tyres or not. And looking at the gaps, he could even have gotten close to Button! :yikes:

I care too; I am most definitely a Kobayashi fan and I become a bigger fan every time I see him race; he doesn't make excuses, he gets his head down and gets the result; which is refreshing in a field of whinny overpaid F1 drivers, if more F1 drivers took a leaf out of the Japanese's book; F1 would be all the better for it!


I think its worth with Kobayashi in particular, using a set of hards in both Q1 and Q2 to save all his soft tyres, and just running the race overtaking.


Why the teams still havent learnt from Hamilton in China that you just DONT waste two sets in Q3 i dont know, saving tyres is the single most important factor to doing well in the race. Sauber are luckily only fast enough anyway to nip into Q3 every so often and usually Q2, just get into Q2 and see how far they can get up the field on a set of hards, they proved again with 3 stops and point finish that theyre easiest car on tyres by far.
#254980
Second part on Kobayashi, i got in there first :wink: , nobody here cares cause theyre too busy arguing over whos virtual man-sausage is bigger.

Shame he punctured tyre, seriously finishing 10th with a sauber, starting DEAD last, whilst suffering a puncture, is far more impressive then starting 6 places from last, in a red bull, and finishing 3rd. Nobody seems to care though :confused:

I care...! Couldn't be bothered trawling through all this arguing to find something actually relevant to the race though, apologies... :hehe: but yeah, being on to beat the Renaults from the back is very good, new tyres or not. And looking at the gaps, he could even have gotten close to Button! :yikes:

I care too; I am most definitely a Kobayashi fan and I become a bigger fan every time I see him race; he doesn't make excuses, he gets his head down and gets the result; which is refreshing in a field of whinny overpaid F1 drivers, if more F1 drivers took a leaf out of the Japanese's book; F1 would be all the better for it!

[youtube]o7gFlSGXt_k[/youtube]
#254989
Vapting i'm sorry to say this but you'd have to pretty dumb to think Lewis would do 3 stops the way he was pushing. McLaren PR is on damage control because a lot of fans are pissed by the results!


Martin and Lewis clearly said they were on a planned 3 stop. They changed course after the first stint. And McLaren weren't the only team to do so.....
#254999
DRS was making people look like chumps this race. That's a bit over the top. I like the DRS but that was some artificial racing. They really have to let this tech be used all the time.
#255001
speaking of DRS, why was the difference so pronounced in Turkey? It's not like it was the longest straight we've seen thus far. Even Malaysia's and China's straights didn't allow overtaking to be so easy.
#255005
speaking of DRS, why was the difference so pronounced in Turkey? It's not like it was the longest straight we've seen thus far. Even Malaysia's and China's straights didn't allow overtaking to be so easy.

Slingshot from the fast corner before.
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