FORUMula1.com - F1 Forum

[LewEngBridewell]

Webber like Prost?? Nah, I prefer this way of doing it;

* Lewis Hamilton = Ayrton Senna
* Fernando Alonso = Alain Prost
* Sebastien Vettel = Michael Schumacher (although not as liable to purposely shunt everyone else when under pressure...)

[Robert12010]

there is no doubt that vettel is a great driver, in the same league as hamilton and alonso, but i dont think anyone can reach the heights of senna, from what ive seen and heard, he sounded incredible......

he sounds incredible or he was incredible?


Sennas death was ironically the best thing that ever happened to him, as he's now immortalised as the unquestionable, untouchable, unreachable epitome of what an F1 driver should be.

Oddly enough from what ive seen and heard i dont think Senna was nearly as great as made out, not even close.

i only say that purely because i sadly wasnt old enough to remember or relise his great talent. so im not in a position to judge for myself, but im basing my thoughts from the guys and girls on here, past and current f1 drivers etc....

[The Ram]

Ok Lets see all the Vettel highlight videos - then lets see all the Senna highlight videos - that should Vettel it - uh i mean settle it.

[FRAFPDD]

Ok Lets see all the Vettel highlight videos - then lets see all the Senna highlight videos - that should Vettel it - uh i mean settle it.

i think Senna has 5 odd years on Vettel.....

[sennasational]

Still, Vettel doesn't have a single highlight imo. If he's not running from pole (or first corner) to flag he isn't particularly impressive and pole to flag runs don't make for good highlight reels.

Like I said in the 'I heart Vettel' thread; Vettel is anything but edge of your seat, do or die racing. Being able to get the most out of a brilliant car takes some skill, but being able to get wins in a pretty poor car takes a lot more skill and a lot more nerve.

To an extent the perfection remark is true, Senna just had a different take on it and we won't see if Vettel has a similar ability until he has a car that isn't faster than his competition. All i can see from Vettel is a record chaser who is capable of using the tools given to him, but that's just because that is all he has had the chance to show. I remain open minded but words from fans insisting he is godly can't convince me; I'd need to see first hand evidence and at the moment i just don't see it. Unless I am missing a great performance from him, I really think that currently there is more evidence to show that he perhaps isn't as good as his fans seem to think, but as i said; I will remain open minded.

What is annoying is when you have his die hard fans insisting that he is this untouchable entity of perfection with little to base that opinion on, usually their reason is 'just because'.

[nish2280]

He isnt do or die racing? May i remind you Turkey last year? He had about an inch between him and Webber and he still went for the gap. Please go watch his overtakes at the British GP, he might not be the most skilled overtaker but he sure is 'do or die'.

[McLaren]

Just read through this entire post and FRAFPDD you are either a wind up merchant ,or clearly wasn't around in the years 1984-1994.Nearly all your statements are about what you see in record books ,they don't always show the full story.
On another note why are so many Senna fans getting wound up over this thread
It's about getting the best out of a car not saying Vettel is the greatest thing since sliced bread

[FRAFPDD]

Still, Vettel doesn't have a single highlight imo. If he's not running from pole (or first corner) to flag he isn't particularly impressive and pole to flag runs don't make for good highlight reels.

Like I said in the 'I heart Vettel' thread; Vettel is anything but edge of your seat, do or die racing. Being able to get the most out of a brilliant car takes some skill, but being able to get wins in a pretty poor car takes a lot more skill and a lot more nerve.

To an extent the perfection remark is true, Senna just had a different take on it and we won't see if Vettel has a similar ability until he has a car that isn't faster than his competition. All i can see from Vettel is a record chaser who is capable of using the tools given to him, but that's just because that is all he has had the chance to show. I remain open minded but words from fans insisting he is godly can't convince me; I'd need to see first hand evidence and at the moment i just don't see it. Unless I am missing a great performance from him, I really think that currently there is more evidence to show that he perhaps isn't as good as his fans seem to think, but as i said; I will remain open minded.

What is annoying is when you have his die hard fans insisting that he is this untouchable entity of perfection with little to base that opinion on, usually their reason is 'just because'.

I agree for the most part, but then i felt compelled to spit my drink all over my keyboard when i saw the closing statement of your post, coming from a Senna fan, unless of course you can admit that your last line is THREE times as suitable for Senna then it is Vettel. I only say Senna cause i see it in your name.

[sennasational]

Still, Vettel doesn't have a single highlight imo. If he's not running from pole (or first corner) to flag he isn't particularly impressive and pole to flag runs don't make for good highlight reels.

Like I said in the 'I heart Vettel' thread; Vettel is anything but edge of your seat, do or die racing. Being able to get the most out of a brilliant car takes some skill, but being able to get wins in a pretty poor car takes a lot more skill and a lot more nerve.

To an extent the perfection remark is true, Senna just had a different take on it and we won't see if Vettel has a similar ability until he has a car that isn't faster than his competition. All i can see from Vettel is a record chaser who is capable of using the tools given to him, but that's just because that is all he has had the chance to show. I remain open minded but words from fans insisting he is godly can't convince me; I'd need to see first hand evidence and at the moment i just don't see it. Unless I am missing a great performance from him, I really think that currently there is more evidence to show that he perhaps isn't as good as his fans seem to think, but as i said; I will remain open minded.

What is annoying is when you have his die hard fans insisting that he is this untouchable entity of perfection with little to base that opinion on, usually their reason is 'just because'.

I agree for the most part, but then i felt compelled to spit my drink all over my keyboard when i saw the closing statement of your post, coming from a Senna fan, unless of course you can admit that your last line is THREE times as suitable for Senna then it is Vettel. I only say Senna cause i see it in your name.

Yeah I absolutely acknowledge that Senna is certainly overrated, i'm more of a Senna fan because of the impact he had on the sport, both during his life and after his death. Whilst he was definitely a skilled racer, his death certainly propelled his reputation massively out of proportion, but at least there is some evidence of his skill, it may not quite live up to where the fans claim, but it's entertaining. From what I have seen, Vettel is no Senna.

[Juliet P]

In 2007, Vettel scored more WDC points than Button, who was in his second season with BAR-Honda. This despite the fact that Vettel competed in only eight races and Button started all 17 (and 8 < 17).

This is an unfair comparison. The 2007 BAR was an absolute dog of a car - at least as bad as this year's Williams.

I think most people on here didn't read the original statements carefully enough, so here they are again:

"I am very lucky," Ascanelli told Sport Bild. "Twice in my life I have experienced perfection; once with Senna, again with Vettel. In one respect Michael was different because he had to work harder for his success than did Senna and Vettel. With those two it was something else."

Although stopping short of making similar comparisons, Gerhard Berger said he felt that the championship leader was now the most complete racer on the grid.

I think we did read it - but disagreed with it. SV's qualifying over one-lap and pole to finish races may be perfect. But those are not the only aspects of a truly great racing driver. He cannot be the most complete driver on the grid when an entire part of his racecraft (fighting through the field) is so palpably deficient.

[What's Burning?]

He'll have time to prove or disprove everyone. Maybe an interesting thread to come back to in 6 or 7 years.

[FRAFPDD]

He'll have time to prove or disprove everyone. Maybe an interesting thread to come back to in 6 or 7 years.

Een though the world ends next year

[What's Burning?]

He'll have time to prove or disprove everyone. Maybe an interesting thread to come back to in 6 or 7 years.

Een though the world ends next year

Pick a year... any YEAR

[vlad]

GoodYear?

[FRAFPDD]

Just read through this entire post and FRAFPDD you are either a wind up merchant ,or clearly wasn't around in the years 1984-1994.Nearly all your statements are about what you see in record books ,they don't always show the full story.
On another note why are so many Senna fans getting wound up over this thread
It's about getting the best out of a car not saying Vettel is the greatest thing since sliced bread

Who could i possibly be trying to wind up? Senna fans?

If you dont do anything less then catch a tan on the rays of sun coming out of Sennas a*se they get pissed off, they are THEE most fanboyish fans of anyone, not Alonso, Hamilton or Schumi.......Why Senna fans are given the right to act like total tools and disrespect any driver they wish just cause their driver cannot be attacked by a de-facto law which deems those who break it a heretic i dont know.

Im sorry if that goes totally against the grain of 99 percent of people but i do NOT find him as great as made out, the best driver ever, sure i can see exactly why that is, but nowhere near the level many claim. The level that he could drive todays HRT round the outside line of eau rouge past a red bull, or add 5 seconds to any car he drives.

As for the clearly wasnt around bit, no i wasnt, but your assumption is that anyone who didnt see it arent allowed to debate with anyone who did, im a shepherd, not a sheep, and im not going to be dictated what my thoughts are by people all with their own agendas/bias/nostalgia, that would most likely misrepresent what it was actually like. The races are widely available on dodgy sites, but theres a whole library's worth to go through, and ive seen enough to know half of what im talking about.

Irony is after all the dust is settled, Senna (believe it or not i dont care) is my favourite driver just behind Prost, which goes to show just how bad this godlike status of Senna is, that one of his fans looks like a hater, purely cause i dont kiss his a*se.