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#252690
Pretty much a thread for the Tifosi here, but, of course everyone's welcome.

Part 1 - What happened from testing (huge optimism) to the 1st 3 GP's?

After testing was completed, Scuderia Ferrari (SF) were full of optimism for the start of the season, and a lot of pundits had placed them close to Red Bull.

SF have identified probably the major source of their problems - at least a good start. The F150 (excuse moi paranoid Ford execs) was designed with the use of 2 Wind Tunnels (WTs). The Toyota one and SF's own, which was upgraded from a 50% to 60% modelling unit last year.

The design plan for the F150 was to bring a bulk of the car for day-1 testing, and to then bring upgrades after that. SF directly said this at the launch when they said the car would be nothing like the car that would start the first race.

The last upgrade included the wings and these were done in the Maranello WT.

It is a huge understatement to say the team was surprised and disappointed with how the last upgrades performed. What transpired was, that, whilst the WT expected outcome was pretty much validated by what happened during testing, the opposite was true for the last upgrades delivered for Melb.

The problem was tracked down to faulty calibration of the actual WT upgrades. The immediate reaction is for Ferrari to recalibrate and, for the time being go back to the Toyota WT - which they have done.

Part 2 - How Bad is it?

Well, considering how bad the problem actually is, it is amazing that the F150 has shown so much race pace. The reality is that, with everything that has gone so wrong, the car is still only 1 or 2 tenths off the leaders. If you look at the first stints of Jenson, Lewis, Sebastian, Felipe and Nando from China, where they were all on the same option tyre, the F150 was actually able to turn in a couple of faster times than all the others and, when it lost time it was only a small amount.

The first stint is good to analyze because the cars are all on similar wear and we can be pretty sure they are all trying their hardest.

Tifosi can take heart from this because it probably means the F150 is fundamentally a good car and very capable of being competitive.

Part 3 - Where to Now?

I'm an eternal optimist when it comes to my team, so, take everything I have to say with an appropriate grain of salt. However, a lot of this makes sense, and, I genuinely feel that over the next few races, we will see significant improvements in the F150. There are 2 reasons for my optimism.

Knowing the problem, and because it is largely based on appendages, means changes are a little easier to make. I'd expect to see big changes, especially in the front wing of the Ferrari. I'm certain it will incorporate flexing (as Ferrari had already mastered this last year) and, it will compensate for the erroneous calibration.

The other reason for my optimism - Rory Byrne. I mentioned in another thread that he is back at SF. This is a huge boost both in terms of genuine talent and for the morale of the team. Those who know him, know that he too is a master of aeros and, has had some great car designing battles with Adrian Newey. I think, head to head, Rory has the edge on championships over Adrian, but even if I'm wrong there, they are very close. His input will take effect this year and will be very significant in next years car.

Here is one article on Rory's return to SF, it is in French, so here is a link to the same article through an English bot translator.
#252693
I hope you do feel better after that post. It's good to know the reasons. But your claim that the Ferrari's are one or two tenths off is a bit optimistic even for the most optimistic amongst us. They are over a second off the pace of the Red Bulls in qualifying. If what's brewing now with the extreme economy of tire use during qualifying continues, it's going to be even more critical to land that solid one lap.

I'm am now hoping we get to see tires allocated for qualifying and tires allocated for the race to nip in the bud the silliness in qualifying I fear will happen on Saturday... Q1, Q2 primes, Q3 one lap on options.

In any case, based on these finding, we're likely to see quite a bump from Ferrari come mid season!
#252696
Youll never listen to a non-tifosi fan saying itll all be alright, but it really will.


The problem is Ferrari are so used/expected/pressured into winning that a "normal" year where your car just isnt top is classed as a complete disaster for Ferrari, that said their car wasnt that good in 2010 but theres no real time limit to turn it around.


I actually feel a bit ill writing stuff like this cause it seems to happen every year, but i wouldnt worry about it, or look too much into it spanky.


Worst comes to worse They dont win anything, its not actually that bad, and you can still enjoy the years racing.
#252699
it does seem like there is a fundamental aerodynamic problem with the car..... few people actually knew they were using 2 wind tunnels. So at least that explains part of the problem.

But the real problem is that the f150th italian unification (dont wanna get in trouble with ford ;)) is more than just a few tenths off Red Bull and similarly Mclaren. Sure, in the races ferrari have put in some good laps, but i have given up comparing tire wear/track position and so on (it seems the races will be decied on the last stint), so perhaps those fast times ferrari have posted come from having simply better tires or being on a more favourable tire/situation than the rivals.

Ferrari's race pace is not bad. But they have to Q better in order to at least remove 90% of the issues that come from starting in a Mercedes - Mclaren - Renault sandwich. Waaaaay too much turmoil as one heads back the grid. Not to mention any traffic situation that could screw up a strategy. That ferrari h ave had this sor of issue with both cars, means its there to be thought about.

other than that, no reason to be fully pessimistic, but unless the f150th italian unification wins at least 1 race in the coming rounds, there will be no hope left, knowing Vettel will definitely be at least in contention for podiums. Nothing was better from a ferrari pt of view than to have someone steal a win from Vettel and hopefully apply pressure for the rest of the championship... but seriously... Vettel still got a 2nd with a poor strategy!! and it feels somehow as if he LOST OUT BIG TIME... now how about that.....
#252703
No fear Ferrari fans, Vettel isn't running away with it...McLaren is always there to hold the reins back. Watch, and enjoy... :drink:
#252705
No fear Ferrari fans, Vettel isn't running away with it...McLaren is always there to hold the reins back. Watch, and enjoy... :drink:


on his worst race of the season Vettel finished P2. If the worst race of either Mclaren driver were P2, i'd say you have a point...... until then....
#252706
No fear Ferrari fans, Vettel isn't running away with it...McLaren is always there to hold the reins back. Watch, and enjoy... :drink:


on his worst race of the season Vettel finished P2. If the worst race of either Mclaren driver were P2, i'd say you have a point...... until then....


He meant holding the reins since Ferrari at this point is only able to assist in getting McLaren to mount the horse so they could then hold the reins. The horse is the beast that needs to be controlled. Marrusia are the horsesh!t cleaners in this analogy.

EDIT: I'd like to clear something up, in my analogy I'm not referring to Sebastian Vettel as a horse. :hehe:
#252707
Early days, early days mate...Turkey was just the beginning. :wink:
#252708
Funny how the momentum swings, innit? The first time the English teams rose to dominance, Il Commendatore disdainfully referred to them as garagistas. Rather like calling RBR "just a drinks company."

For SF, Byrne's return can't be a bad thing. His F2002, AFAIK, earned the highest percentage of WDC points of any car in F1 history (beating out Gordon Murray's McLaren MP4/4 by the slimmest fraction of a percentage point). But I suspect it might be a case of too little, too late. Byrne might stop the bleeding but I rather doubt he can transform the 150° to meet LDM's preseason expectations.
#252712
No fear Ferrari fans, Vettel isn't running away with it...McLaren is always there to hold the reins back. Watch, and enjoy... :drink:


on his worst race of the season Vettel finished P2. If the worst race of either Mclaren driver were P2, i'd say you have a point...... until then....


He meant holding the reins since Ferrari at this point is only able to assist in getting McLaren to mount the horse so they could then hold the reins. The horse is the beast that needs to be controlled. Marrusia are the horsesh!t cleaners in this analogy.


he he i hope he is right and Mclaren are able to hold those reigns..... but man it does seem a difficult task.
#252716
McLaren fan here. :wavey:

I gotta say I've been pretty much disappointed with Ferrari. Based on the winter testing, I thought they had a killer machine. Then the races begin and what the heck? McLaren is kicking booty and I'm expecting Ferrari to be there, but they're not!

Hey, I love a good classic fight; sue me. :rofl:

I still think there's potential in the F150th. The sense I get this year from Ferrari is of a not-so-well-oiled machinery kinda thing going on throughout the team, like they have all the best stuff but need someone to snap everyone to attention and focus.

They have some of the best people in the sport, so I highly doubt they won't be able to make a turnaround. These three weeks are crucial. I'm hoping to see a classic red vs. silver fight on Turkey (screw the blue ones :hehe: )
#252718
Clearly, both WB and f1ea are right in pointing out that the F150 is a lot further behind in Q than on race day. But there are no points given on Saturdays.

Last year Q was absolutely critical. It's still important this year, but, nowhere near as much. Mark proved that in China. The trick is to arrange your pitstops to bring you out in clear track and to do good consistently fast laps.

I'm not suggesting the F150 is on the same pace as the RB and Macca, but, on race day (which is when it counts) for all the problems it has had to deal with, it is surprisingly close. I think (well hope) that shows the car is fundamentally good enough to become competitive.

Turkey will be the first chance Ferrari have had to react after understanding the problem and with enough time to make some changes. If SF can bring themselves into contention for a podium, then I think the year is not yet lost for them.

Gotta agree with Kerc - need to get back to some classic Red and Silver ding-dong battles. McLaren are doing their bit, we need to raise our game. :yes:
#252722
McLaren fan here. :wavey:

I gotta say I've been pretty much disappointed with Ferrari. Based on the winter testing, I thought they had a killer machine. Then the races begin and what the heck? McLaren is kicking booty and I'm expecting Ferrari to be there, but they're not!

Hey, I love a good classic fight; sue me. :rofl:

I still think there's potential in the F150th. The sense I get this year from Ferrari is of a not-so-well-oiled machinery kinda thing going on throughout the team, like they have all the best stuff but need someone to snap everyone to attention and focus.

They have some of the best people in the sport, so I highly doubt they won't be able to make a turnaround. These three weeks are crucial. I'm hoping to see a classic red vs. silver fight on Turkey (screw the blue ones :hehe: )


Yeah, screw Willaims. :hehe:

I'm glad you were brave enough to break the ice, because as a McLaren fan I'd much rather be racing againts Ferrari than against the Red Bulls. I mean something is seriously wrong when (as this thread proves) there is a comradery between the Silver and the Red against the Blue.
#252730
The other reason for my optimism - Rory Byrne. I mentioned in another thread that he is back at SF. This is a huge boost both in terms of genuine talent and for the morale of the team. Those who know him, know that he too is a master of aeros and, has had some great car designing battles with Adrian Newey. I think, head to head, Rory has the edge on championships over Adrian, but even if I'm wrong there, they are very close. His input will take effect this year and will be very significant in next years car.

Here is one article on Rory's return to SF, it is in French, so here is a link to the same article through an English bot translator.


From reading the original it seems to me that Rory is not really back full time, only to supervise the development of the Enzo successor with a 'side job' of lending a hand to the F1 team in an advisory role. Whether that level of involvement is enough will have to be found out down the road...
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