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[vlad]

I've liked SV, from the start. He was a breath of fresh air. Let's see how he develops, matures and improves. We could be witnessing somebody and something special - let's be open-minded.

Same here, m8!


Anyway, Torro Rosso wasn't the best car at all on that day. McLaren or Ferrari maybe, but not Torro Rosso.

[FRAFPDD]

I've liked SV, from the start. He was a breath of fresh air. Let's see how he develops, matures and improves. We could be witnessing somebody and something special - let's be open-minded.

Same here, m8!


Anyway, Torro Rosso wasn't the best car at all on that day. McLaren or Ferrari maybe, but not Torro Rosso.

But Bourdais qualified 4th?

Is bourdais an extremely talented driver, or was the toro rosso the best car of the day? Might i remind you only one Mclaren of two Ferrari's and two Mclarens finished the race on the podium, but no your right the toro rosso was a backmarker and Vettel was great.

[Robert12010]

i must admit even though hes a rival to mclaren ( and so webber), i kind of like them because they make some good jokes

[What's Burning?]

But his stats say: 41 wins, 65 poles.

I just cant see how on stats alone, he was either great at winning from the back AND (not or, not also, AND) good at winning from pole?

Because if that were the case, hed have more wins then poles. But he has significantly less amount of wins, then poles?

I'm not sure if what you're stating is that you don't think that Senna was as great a driver as folks seem to think he was, or if Vettel is as good a driver as folks seem to think he is because you've made claims that seem to counter each other. You either look at stats alone or you take into consideration the "performance" if you will. In your case here looking purely at the stats It would seem to indicate that you're assuming that his car would finish every race he ever participated in. Cars break down, sometimes accidents happen not of your own accord. Factor that into your stats formula the DNFs of an era with entirely less reliable cars.

[killem2]

I'm sorry i, i no, vettel is good, he's got a great car, a great team, and a fearless pole driver but comparing him to senna.. what ever.

[FRAFPDD]

But his stats say: 41 wins, 65 poles.

I just cant see how on stats alone, he was either great at winning from the back AND (not or, not also, AND) good at winning from pole?

Because if that were the case, hed have more wins then poles. But he has significantly less amount of wins, then poles?

I'm not sure if what you're stating is that you don't think that Senna was as great a driver as folks seem to think he was, or if Vettel is as good a driver as folks seem to think he is because you've made claims that seem to counter each other. You either look at stats alone or you take into consideration the "performance" if you will. In your case here looking purely at the stats It would seem to indicate that you're assuming that his car would finish every race he ever participated in. Cars break down, sometimes accidents happen not of your own accord. Factor that into your stats formula the DNFs of an era with entirely less reliable cars.

Yes, but....23 less wins then poles, whats the phrase? Somethins gotta give? He cant be both brilliant at winning from pole, or great at winning from the back, with 23 less wins then poles, somethings gotta give. People just make these claims cause they know MOST people wont challenge words for Senna. I saw a logical crosswire and i asked a few questions, no harm in that. Heres an interesting fact, the best driver ever at ragging his car to the edge, Senna: 41 wins, 65 poles, the best driver at tactical thinking and finishing races 33 poles, 51 wins. If that stat means nothing in this debate about whether Senna created at least some of his retirements, then im the Queen of England.

Its clear he broke down through more then just hard luck, he was a sprinter not a marathon runner. That suggests the only reason his stats arent at least 1:1 for wins and poles, is that he broke his own car a lot, mainly from starting in pole.

I dont think Sennas as great as made out, if that renders me an outcast on here, id rather not continue posting. I also dont KNOW how good Vettel is, because so far i believe hes only ever won in the best car ON THE DAY (for all that will point out italy 2008).

[spankyham]

Personally, I don't think Senna was as good as Senna's current reputation.

Don't get me wrong, he was multiple WDC and a great driver who never got to complete his full potential. But, based on what I saw, I'd put him clearly behind Prost.

Year's leading points scorer:-
Prost 5
Senna 2

As of now, it is way too premature to put Vettel in Senna's class.

[FRAFPDD]

Personally, I don't think Senna is as good as Senna's reputation.

Don't get me wrong, he was multiple WDC and a great driver who never got to complete his full potential. But, based on what I saw, I'd put him clearly behind Prost.

Year's leading points scorer:-
Prost 5
Senna 2

As of now, it is way too premature to put Vettel in Senna's class.

See now this is basically what my thousands of rambling words try to say, but i just cant help but be less concise then this.

[Hammer278]

Personally, I don't think Senna is as good as Senna's reputation.

Don't get me wrong, he was multiple WDC and a great driver who never got to complete his full potential. But, based on what I saw, I'd put him clearly behind Prost.

Year's leading points scorer:-
Prost 5
Senna 2

As of now, it is way too premature to put Vettel in Senna's class.

Agree with every single word here.

[killem2]

See now this is basically what my thousands of rambling words try to say, but i just cant help but be less concise then this.

We get it, you like prost, and not senna. God I would hate to see what this thread would have been like if it had been prost he was compared too.

[What's Burning?]

Personally, I don't think Senna was as good as Senna's current reputation.

Don't get me wrong, he was multiple WDC and a great driver who never got to complete his full potential. But, based on what I saw, I'd put him clearly behind Prost.

Year's leading points scorer:-
Prost 5
Senna 2

As of now, it is way too premature to put Vettel in Senna's class.

I agree, but since you know I can't just post a reply without ribs... what if the red overalls had a Ferrari logo on them? Come on... it would have tugged at your heart strings a little yes?

[FRAFPDD]

See now this is basically what my thousands of rambling words try to say, but i just cant help but be less concise then this.

We get it, you like prost, and not senna. God I would hate to see what this thread would have been like if it had been prost he was compared too.

Totally agree

[spankyham]

Personally, I don't think Senna was as good as Senna's current reputation.

Don't get me wrong, he was multiple WDC and a great driver who never got to complete his full potential. But, based on what I saw, I'd put him clearly behind Prost.

Year's leading points scorer:-
Prost 5
Senna 2

As of now, it is way too premature to put Vettel in Senna's class.

I agree, but since you know I can't just post a reply without ribs... what if the red overalls had a Ferrari logo on them? Come on... it would have tugged at your heart strings a little yes?

Come on, that's a no-brainer. 100% I would have loved to see Senna in a Ferrari, but I'd rather he got the chance to complete his career anywhere than that he was taken from us prematurely.

[What's Burning?]

Personally, I don't think Senna was as good as Senna's current reputation.

Don't get me wrong, he was multiple WDC and a great driver who never got to complete his full potential. But, based on what I saw, I'd put him clearly behind Prost.

Year's leading points scorer:-
Prost 5
Senna 2

As of now, it is way too premature to put Vettel in Senna's class.

I agree, but since you know I can't just post a reply without ribs... what if the red overalls had a Ferrari logo on them? Come on... it would have tugged at your heart strings a little yes?

Come on, that's a no-brainer. 100% I would have loved to see Senna in a Ferrari, but I'd rather he got the chance to complete his career anywhere than that he was taken from us prematurely.

Which is exactly why his achievements have the ethereal quality about them they've got. It's human nature to project unfulfilled or not allowed to flower talent, and larger than life greatness is often much easier to achieve when a life is cut short, a la Marylin Monroe, or Jame Dean.

You never have to see your heroes getting old, ugly, or ineffective.

[Hammer278]

You never have to see your heroes getting old, ugly, or ineffective.

Now if Michael reads these forums he's gonna burst into tears!