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[Hammer278]

Vettel in Senna's league - Ascanelli

Ascanelli worked with Vettel during his time at Toro Rosso in 2007 and 2008, and had previously worked with Senna in his McLaren days. Having been able to see both of the drivers at close quarters, Ascanelli said that they both delivered "perfection", while also adding that seven-time world champion Michael Schumacher - who he worked alongside at Ferrari - was less naturally gifted then either Vettel or Senna.

"I am very lucky," Ascabelli told Sport Bild. "Twice in my life I have experienced perfection; once with Senna, again with Vettel. In one respect Michael was different because he had to work harder for his success than did Senna and Vettel. With those two it was something else."

Although stopping short of making similar comparisons, Gerhard Berger said he felt that the championship leader was now the most complete racer on the grid.

"Before the season began I thought Alonso was the best driver, but maybe now it's Sebastian," Berger said.

______________________________________________

I believe this article is good reason to say his opinion is as good as any of ours in the forums.

[FRAFPDD]

Wow.



Dont see it personally, be interesting to see if its labelled "premature" or welcomed by the forum. Hamilton is apparently still light years away from Senna although i dont see why Senna should be the benchmark unless we want a consistent crop of drivers being pole to flag drivers, dirty ones at that too.

[myownalias]

I don't see it; in my opinion; Ayrton Senna was in a class of his own; not because he had the best car; but the way he used it! Vettel has the best car on the grid for the last two seasons. And it's unfair to compare drivers from different era's, a modern F1 car is much easier to drive than cars from Senna's era. Vettel is great when he is out front, starting from pole position but not the greatest when having to fight his way through the field, something that Senna was exceptional at doing. I don't agree that Vettel is the most complete driver either, at least not at this stage, maybe with more experience he could become that driver but I don't imagine him every becoming as good as Senna.

[FRAFPDD]

I don't see it; in my opinion; Ayrton Senna was in a class of his own; not because he had the best car; but the way he used it! Vettel has the best car on the grid for the last two seasons. And it's unfair to compare drivers from different era's, a modern F1 car is much easier to drive than cars from Senna's era. Vettel is great when he is out front, starting from pole position but not the greatest when having to fight his way through the field, something that Senna was exceptional at doing. I don't agree that Vettel is the most complete driver either, at least not at this stage, maybe with more experience he could become that driver but I don't imagine him every becoming as good as Senna.

I think cars today are twice as much hard work then the cars of Senna.

Not only do the cars today require precision surgery just to keep the engine running, but they are twice as temperamental with ragging the engine and warming the tyres.

Not to mention the cars today are much harder at showing driver capability cause they can all take eau rouge for example flat out easily. The cars of Senna were really very basic, as such if you were a good driver you could show it much easier. For all we know D'ambrosio could have been a 5 time world champion in the 80's!

[bud]

Senna was hardly a pole to flag driver, research more about something before your time to make such statements.

And the guys making comparisons because he has worked with all the above, so it's fair for him to do so!

[myownalias]

I think cars today are twice as much hard work then the cars of Senna.

Not only do the cars today require precision surgery just to keep the engine running, but they are twice as temperamental with ragging the engine and warming the tyres.

Yes, car's didn't have the technology and millions of buttons on the steering wheel; but what they did have was manual gearboxes, it was easy to miss gears when in the heat of battle back in the 80s/early 90s, it was more about man and machine, not having electronics to save your bottom when you spin; if you spun the car back in Senna's era, chances are you would be out of the race unless you were ultra quick with the clutch. Cars back then were also more temperamental; how often would we see an engine blow up spectacularly? When is the last time we saw a tyre explode? Even Lewis Hamilton after driving Senna's McLaren said he couldn't imagine what it would be like to drive a whole race distance in that car.

Not to mention the cars today are much harder at showing driver capability cause they can all take eau rouge for example flat out easily. The cars of Senna were really very basic, as such if you were a good driver you could show it much easier. For all we know D'ambrosio could have been a 5 time world champion in the 80's!

I believe that talent will shine through regardless of what car is being driven, just look at Vettel in the Toro Rosso, it was clear he was something special winning in a car that wasn't a race winning car, a good driver can make a bad car perform better than it should "on paper", but I believe that Vettel has a long way to go before being compared to Senna!

[Robert12010]

I think cars today are twice as much hard work then the cars of Senna.

Not only do the cars today require precision surgery just to keep the engine running, but they are twice as temperamental with ragging the engine and warming the tyres.

Yes, car's didn't have the technology and millions of buttons on the steering wheel; but what they did have was manual gearboxes, it was easy to miss gears when in the heat of battle back in the 80s/early 90s, it was more about man and machine, not having electronics to save your bottom when you spin; if you spun the car back in Senna's era, chances are you would be out of the race unless you were ultra quick with the clutch. Cars back then were also more temperamental; how often would we see an engine blow up spectacularly? When is the last time we saw a tyre explode? Even Lewis Hamilton after driving Senna's McLaren said he couldn't imagine what it would be like to drive a whole race distance in that car.

Not to mention the cars today are much harder at showing driver capability cause they can all take eau rouge for example flat out easily. The cars of Senna were really very basic, as such if you were a good driver you could show it much easier. For all we know D'ambrosio could have been a 5 time world champion in the 80's!

I believe that talent will shine through regardless of what car is being driven, just look at Vettel in the Toro Rosso, it was clear he was something special winning in a car that wasn't a race winning car, a good driver can make a bad car perform better than it should "on paper", but I believe that Vettel has a long way to go before being compared to Senna!

i dont believe any one can be compared to senna because he was unqiue,

[FRAFPDD]

Senna was hardly a pole to flag driver, research more about something before your time to make such statements.

And the guys making comparisons because he has worked with all the above, so it's fair for him to do so!

Almost all of Sennas wins came from pole to flag? What is your actual point here bud? It is a fact.

[FRAFPDD]

I think cars today are twice as much hard work then the cars of Senna.

Not only do the cars today require precision surgery just to keep the engine running, but they are twice as temperamental with ragging the engine and warming the tyres.

Yes, car's didn't have the technology and millions of buttons on the steering wheel; but what they did have was manual gearboxes, it was easy to miss gears when in the heat of battle back in the 80s/early 90s, it was more about man and machine, not having electronics to save your bottom when you spin; if you spun the car back in Senna's era, chances are you would be out of the race unless you were ultra quick with the clutch. Cars back then were also more temperamental; how often would we see an engine blow up spectacularly? When is the last time we saw a tyre explode? Even Lewis Hamilton after driving Senna's McLaren said he couldn't imagine what it would be like to drive a whole race distance in that car.

Not to mention the cars today are much harder at showing driver capability cause they can all take eau rouge for example flat out easily. The cars of Senna were really very basic, as such if you were a good driver you could show it much easier. For all we know D'ambrosio could have been a 5 time world champion in the 80's!

I believe that talent will shine through regardless of what car is being driven, just look at Vettel in the Toro Rosso, it was clear he was something special winning in a car that wasn't a race winning car, a good driver can make a bad car perform better than it should "on paper", but I believe that Vettel has a long way to go before being compared to Senna!

But dont the bolds help my point? All drivers seem to do nowadays, is perform to the limit their car allows them. They all follow a rigourous sequence of brake at 10 metre board, turn in, accelrate wide, brake at 50 metre board. They just robotically drive their car to the standard limit the car will take them.

Back in the 80's your main car advantage was its engine power. The brakes wouldnt last forever, the wings were simple one layer panels. Its how you drove the car around, or how willing you were to rag it around. The cars are so powerful on braking and accelerating nowadays, and taking corners also, that if you brake 10 metres later for a corner it might only save you .050 of a lap time over another car!

[myownalias]

But dont the bolds help my point? All drivers seem to do nowadays, is perform to the limit their car allows them. They all follow a rigourous sequence of brake at 10 metre board, turn in, accelrate wide, brake at 50 metre board. They just robotically drive their car to the standard limit the car will take them.

Back in the 80's your main car advantage was its engine power. The brakes wouldnt last forever, the wings were simple one layer panels. Its how you drove the car around, or how willing you were to rag it around. The cars are so powerful on braking and accelerating nowadays, and taking corners also, that if you brake 10 metres later for a corner it might only save you .050 of a lap time over another car!

Maybe I misunderstood what you were trying to say; I thought you were trying say that today's cars are harder to drive; today's F1 cars have more technology than the laptop I am writing this on. I prefer the "simple" man and machine car; it really separates the men from the boys.

[FRAFPDD]

But dont the bolds help my point? All drivers seem to do nowadays, is perform to the limit their car allows them. They all follow a rigourous sequence of brake at 10 metre board, turn in, accelrate wide, brake at 50 metre board. They just robotically drive their car to the standard limit the car will take them.

Back in the 80's your main car advantage was its engine power. The brakes wouldnt last forever, the wings were simple one layer panels. Its how you drove the car around, or how willing you were to rag it around. The cars are so powerful on braking and accelerating nowadays, and taking corners also, that if you brake 10 metres later for a corner it might only save you .050 of a lap time over another car!

Maybe I misunderstood what you were trying to say; I thought you were trying say that today's cars are harder to drive; today's F1 cars have more technology than the laptop I am writing this on. I prefer the "simple" man and machine car; it really separates the men from the boys.

The jurys out (right phrase?) On what era were harder to drive, i was purely saying its much harder to show some skill aboe your peers when the cars can almost take every corner without lifting and brake all at the same point because any later and you wouldquite literally, actually be in the grandstand.

What this loops back round to, was i think something about Senna? LOL.

Ahh yes! I was saying how he had about 65 pole positions and 41 wins!!!, Now whatever way you surgically analyse that fact, Senna was either so hard on his car that he had trouble converting his poles to wins (Vettel MIGHT have that trait too judging on 2010) or, Senna was a qualifying god, and his race pace wasnt that much more then anyone around him , perhaps even less!. I believe Prost beat him to fastest laps numerous times.

Now going on that pole/win ratio again its odd how Senna also has a reputation for slicing through the field, really odd, why? Well cause he started on pole so much it would seem he only ever needed to slice through the field when he has a miraculously poor start or mucks up quali strategy, which means his car was still mighty good enough for wins and as such slicing through the field wasnt as hard or great a feat as made out. There is no doubt at all within my mind that Sennas slicing through field reputation rests almost solely on Donington 93.

[What's Burning?]

Senna was hardly a pole to flag driver, research more about something before your time to make such statements.

And the guys making comparisons because he has worked with all the above, so it's fair for him to do so!

It's still just his opinion. We've established time and time again that the only true and equal comparison that can be made between drivers is when they're sitting in the same machine.

[bud]

Senna was hardly a pole to flag driver, research more about something before your time to make such statements.

And the guys making comparisons because he has worked with all the above, so it's fair for him to do so!

Almost all of Sennas wins came from pole to flag? What is your actual point here bud? It is a fact.

What's my point? Gee you arrogant little.... What's your point? Senna could only win from pole? You're wrong if you think that! Senna had more career poles than race wins. Back then they had a Q engine and a race one, getting pole was no guarantee of a race win unlike in the previous decade just gone!

And if you honestly think Senna only won from pole then my first post RESEARCH! He had a lot of great wins from in the field! You seem to post alot of s*** before you actually know what you're talking about!

[What's Burning?]

Senna was hardly a pole to flag driver, research more about something before your time to make such statements.

And the guys making comparisons because he has worked with all the above, so it's fair for him to do so!

Almost all of Sennas wins came from pole to flag? What is your actual point here bud? It is a fact.

What's my point? Gee you arrogant little.... What's your point? Senna could only win from pole? You're wrong if you think that! Senna had more career poles than race wins. Back then they had a Q engine and a race one, getting pole was no guarantee of a race win unlike in the previous decade just gone!

And if you honestly think Senna only won from pole then my first post RESEARCH! He had a lot of great wins from in the field! You seem to post alot of s*** before you actually know what you're talking about!

Not necessary to escalate the wording and veiled threats here bud, this thread could be very short lived otherwise. Go watch the videos just posted on internet behavior, they're very funny.

[bud]

Yeah bit of respect my way would be nicer WB instead of just saying what's your point...