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#251625
Why are you homing in on only Lewis? If you want to play the IF game, IF his tyre had held up for 1 more lap in Spain, he's still WDC! FACT! Please don't give me "he pushed too hard"...Bridgestone admitted it was a compound 'failure'.

If you list out each drivers mistakes (Top 4 in WDC) you might see it is very unfair to just list out Lewis' "what ifs" mistakes.

I'm homing in on Hamilton as he is the subject of this thread; is he not? Lewis talks about driving for a team that can deliver him world titles; McLaren gave him a car in 2010 that was capable of winning the title; forget the technical failures; all his rivals had those as well; maybe with the exception of Jenson who simply wasn't good enough last season. He had two avoidable accidents that lost him a handful of points which lost him the title in my opinion. I have nothing against Hamilton but it is a fact that he threw away a good haul to points that could have won the drivers title.


A car half a second slower than your rival's is hardly a contender.Red Bull's 1000 poles confirm that.
As for the rest of your post it's filled with excuses and biases.
07-08 Mac had 8 and 7 poles with Lewis having 5 and 6 respectively,heck he even had 4 poles in 09.
#251630
I'm now really confused; excuses and bias?... did the events I described not happen? I am not a fan of Lewis Hamilton but that doesn't make me biased or making excuses. If you read my posts on the forum, I even criticise my favourite drivers (Button, Webber and Kobayashi) when they screw up or don't live up to expectations. If you want to believe I'm biased I can't do anything about that!
#251634
I'm now really confused; excuses and bias?... did the events I described not happen? I am not a fan of Lewis Hamilton but that doesn't make me biased or making excuses. If you read my posts on the forum, I even criticise my favourite drivers (Button, Webber and Kobayashi) when they screw up or don't live up to expectations. If you want to believe I'm biased I can't do anything about that!


It is more the fact you are completely ignoring the fact if Vettel, Webber or Alonso hadn't made the various mistakes they made during the season he wouldn't have had a chance at the title at all.

So given every driver made 0 mistakes during the season which is what you are implying Hamilton should have done you really think he would have been even close to winning the title?

Given the top teams make enough mistakes even the midfield teams could have a chance at winning the championship but that wouldn't mean the car they are driving is good enough to actually win the championship it just means the other teams didn't take advantage of the car they had.
#251647
I'm now really confused; excuses and bias?... did the events I described not happen? I am not a fan of Lewis Hamilton but that doesn't make me biased or making excuses. If you read my posts on the forum, I even criticise my favourite drivers (Button, Webber and Kobayashi) when they screw up or don't live up to expectations. If you want to believe I'm biased I can't do anything about that!

It is more the fact you are completely ignoring the fact if Vettel, Webber or Alonso hadn't made the various mistakes they made during the season he wouldn't have had a chance at the title at all.

So given every driver made 0 mistakes during the season which is what you are implying Hamilton should have done you really think he would have been even close to winning the title?

Given the top teams make enough mistakes even the midfield teams could have a chance at winning the championship but that wouldn't mean the car they are driving is good enough to actually win the championship it just means the other teams didn't take advantage of the car they had.

But that's my whole point; having a championship winning car is more than having the fastest car on the grid; I'm sure most of the current F1 drivers could win a world championship this year in a Red Bull; unless you're Mark Webber it seems, much to my disappointment. McLaren provided a car that was competitive enough to win races and be in with a shout of the drivers championship at the end of the season despite mechanical failures and driver errors. F1 is about many aspects; drivers skill, car reliability, tyres, strategy and others; I don't expect any driver to have a perfect season but you also can not blame the team for driver mistakes, I'm just pointing out that if he didn't make those mistakes he probably would have claimed his second title. Yet many Lewis Hamilton fans seem to have a hard time accepting that it was Lewis' own mistakes that cost him the title as much as gearbox failures and tyre failures as was the case on 2010.
#251648
I'm now really confused; excuses and bias?... did the events I described not happen? I am not a fan of Lewis Hamilton but that doesn't make me biased or making excuses. If you read my posts on the forum, I even criticise my favourite drivers (Button, Webber and Kobayashi) when they screw up or don't live up to expectations. If you want to believe I'm biased I can't do anything about that!

It is more the fact you are completely ignoring the fact if Vettel, Webber or Alonso hadn't made the various mistakes they made during the season he wouldn't have had a chance at the title at all.

So given every driver made 0 mistakes during the season which is what you are implying Hamilton should have done you really think he would have been even close to winning the title?

Given the top teams make enough mistakes even the midfield teams could have a chance at winning the championship but that wouldn't mean the car they are driving is good enough to actually win the championship it just means the other teams didn't take advantage of the car they had.

But that's my whole point; having a championship winning car is more than having the fastest car on the grid; I'm sure most of the current F1 drivers could win a world championship this year in a Red Bull; unless you're Mark Webber it seems, much to my disappointment. McLaren provided a car that was competitive enough to win races and be in with a shout of the drivers championship at the end of the season despite mechanical failures and driver errors. F1 is about many aspects; drivers skill, car reliability, tyres, strategy and others; I don't expect any driver to have a perfect season but you also can not blame the team for driver mistakes, I'm just pointing out that if he didn't make those mistakes he probably would have claimed his second title. Yet many Lewis Hamilton fans seem to have a hard time accepting that it was Lewis' own mistakes that cost him the title as much as gearbox failures and tyre failures as was the case on 2010.


Please dont ignore what ive just said to you, as a Hamilton fan if anything, cause i admitted more then i needed to about him.

Your fault here is claiming Lewis made more mistakes then the other three title contenders, he did not. He made mistakes that cost him the championship. But he is in NO WAY alone, or a special case, Vettel made them, webber certainly made them, and alonso made them. Oh and Lewis made them.
#251652
Please dont ignore what ive just said to you, as a Hamilton fan if anything, cause i admitted more then i needed to about him.

Your fault here is claiming Lewis made more mistakes then the other three title contenders, he did not. He made mistakes that cost him the championship. But he is in NO WAY alone, or a special case, Vettel made them, webber certainly made them, and alonso made them. Oh and Lewis made them.

I'm not denying that other drivers made more mistakes; I don't believe that I mentioned it at all or suggested Lewis made more; I simply pointed out the mistakes he made that potentially cost him a world title; it's other users that have read between the lines and seen something that I never wrote. If the other drivers didn't make mistakes then McLaren would have been nowhere near. But McLaren gave it's drivers a championship winning car in 2010 because they made a more reliable car than Red Bull and Ferrari, speed isn't much use if you can't take the chequered flag.

What I am writing is in relation to Hamilton's comments about leaving McLaren if they can't provide him with a championship winning car; which they have done ever season except '09.
#251654
I'm now really confused; excuses and bias?... did the events I described not happen? I am not a fan of Lewis Hamilton but that doesn't make me biased or making excuses. If you read my posts on the forum, I even criticise my favourite drivers (Button, Webber and Kobayashi) when they screw up or don't live up to expectations. If you want to believe I'm biased I can't do anything about that!

It is more the fact you are completely ignoring the fact if Vettel, Webber or Alonso hadn't made the various mistakes they made during the season he wouldn't have had a chance at the title at all.

So given every driver made 0 mistakes during the season which is what you are implying Hamilton should have done you really think he would have been even close to winning the title?

Given the top teams make enough mistakes even the midfield teams could have a chance at winning the championship but that wouldn't mean the car they are driving is good enough to actually win the championship it just means the other teams didn't take advantage of the car they had.

But that's my whole point; having a championship winning car is more than having the fastest car on the grid; I'm sure most of the current F1 drivers could win a world championship this year in a Red Bull; unless you're Mark Webber it seems, much to my disappointment. McLaren provided a car that was competitive enough to win races and be in with a shout of the drivers championship at the end of the season despite mechanical failures and driver errors. F1 is about many aspects; drivers skill, car reliability, tyres, strategy and others; I don't expect any driver to have a perfect season but you also can not blame the team for driver mistakes, I'm just pointing out that if he didn't make those mistakes he probably would have claimed his second title. Yet many Lewis Hamilton fans seem to have a hard time accepting that it was Lewis' own mistakes that cost him the title as much as gearbox failures and tyre failures as was the case on 2010.


No one is denying the fact Hamilton made mistakes and yes several of his mistakes if prevented could have given him the extra points he needed to be ahead of Vettel, but the fact is if Vettel hadn't made so many mistakes last season he would have been completely untouchable.

So if that had been the case Mclaren wouldn't have provided Hamilton with a championship winning car as you keep saying since no matter what he did with it the car was still several tenths behind the redbulls for the majority of the season.

Giving a driver a car that can compete for 1st place and giving him a car that can score him points is very different.

I agree though even as a Hamilton fan that he should just shut up sometimes and even the fact his aggressive driving at times can be a big hindrance to him winning more championships, but he has a point that for several seasons now Mclaren haven't provided him with a car that can consistently compete for 1st place without relying on mistakes from the rival teams.
This season is looking slightly better but you can quite clearly see Hamilton and Button are pushing the car to its limits and i don't think the same can be said for Vettel.

But McLaren gave it's drivers a championship winning car in 2010 because they made a more reliable car than Red Bull and Ferrari, speed isn't much use if you can't take the chequered flag.


I don't really get why people keep claiming the Red bull was so unreliable considering most of Vettels non podium finishes were caused by errors by him or tactical errors by his team, he had 2 out of point finishes caused by mechanical failure (Aus - which i think was caused by brakes, Kor - Engine) and Hamilton had 2 out of points finishes caused by mechanical failure (Spain - Puncture, Hungary - Gearbox) there might be more minor problems that i cant remember but the fact is both Red Bull and Ferrari lost the majority of their possible points due to mistakes and yes the same for Mclaren.
#251659
Guys, SERIOUSLY? Don't you think that's enough now? The topic is Hamilton hinting he'd be willing to switch teams to pursue a championship, and whilst this argument of yours is tangentially related, it's just going round in circles.
#251666
I'm now really confused; excuses and bias?... did the events I described not happen? I am not a fan of Lewis Hamilton but that doesn't make me biased or making excuses. If you read my posts on the forum, I even criticise my favourite drivers (Button, Webber and Kobayashi) when they screw up or don't live up to expectations. If you want to believe I'm biased I can't do anything about that!


It is more the fact you are completely ignoring the fact if Vettel, Webber or Alonso hadn't made the various mistakes they made during the season he wouldn't have had a chance at the title at all.

So given every driver made 0 mistakes during the season which is what you are implying Hamilton should have done you really think he would have been even close to winning the title?

Given the top teams make enough mistakes even the midfield teams could have a chance at winning the championship but that wouldn't mean the car they are driving is good enough to actually win the championship it just means the other teams didn't take advantage of the car they had.

Exactly.
I don't understand how some can compare a car that got 1 pole to another that had what 15-16? and say the 1 pole car is a contender :rolleyes:
Like I said I never saw Maca as a threat to RB,and all we kept hearing was Whitmarsh saying ''we'll bring updates for the next race,and we're trying to unlock the potential" which never came.
I only praise Lewis for doing an awesome job to the end,but I wont stand the crap that Maca gave him a WDC car and he failed to deliver.Thats just BOGUS.
#251669
Given the choice between the absolute fastest car on the grid, and car that can consistently score points, there isn't a driver that wouldn't take the fastest car. So I think what Lewis is stating in his Lewis kind of way is that he's not had the absolute fastest car on the grid now for a few years.

I'd bet that Vettel wouldn't switch to a McLaren this year if they tripled his salary.
#251895
McLaren did well 15min before the race to get that car sorted. I was just thinking if McLaren mucked that up and Lewis had to start from the pitlane, he was not going to be a happy chap and the rumours of him leaving would only grow a hell of a lot stronger.

They got out with 35 seconds to spare!! I was cursing them throughout until finally they brought the car from the jacks and he fired out of the pitlane...probably the most tense part of a very tense/exciting race! :clap:
#251898
McLaren did well 15min before the race to get that car sorted. I was just thinking if McLaren mucked that up and Lewis had to start from the pitlane, he was not going to be a happy chap and the rumours of him leaving would only grow a hell of a lot stronger.

They got out with 35 seconds to spare!! I was cursing them throughout until finally they brought the car from the jacks and he fired out of the pitlane...probably the most tense part of a very tense/exciting race! :clap:


I was laughing during the installation lap with the rear of the car missing.
#251899
And here I was thinking you're a McLaren fan. :P
#251915
i think that lewis's quote was taken out of context, and will stay with mclaren because they are a top team and have a good chance of winning both titles this year...
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