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[FRAFPDD]

The main problem with the rule/test combo is it clearly fails to adequately reflect the real-world effects of running the car. The point of the rules about flexing aerodynamic devices is the same as the rule banning actively moveable aerodynamic devices. It doesn't take a genius to see that if the wing, or indeed the whole nosecone/wing assembly, is flexing or otherwise moving in such a way as to dramatically affect performance that the team building that car is enjoying an unfair advantage. Nevertheless, until the FIA takes note and implements a more appropriate test, or otherwise acts to prevent this end-run around the rules, the part is going to continue being defined by the FIA as legal - whether it truly is or not - because the test itself is a loophole.

Agree completely, but dont you think its best to be talking about why the actual hell the other teams havent figured out how theyve dont it, when :


1) The front wing in relation to say the diffuser/exhaust system, is one of the most "basic" components to copy. In terms of layout
2) Theres only so many materials, if it is down to a material choice, that makes their wing able to flex under air pressure but not the FIA tests
3) The FIA have allowed it for peter mary and josephs sake, the teams should take advantage, rather then keep bleating about banning it.


Everyone from the teams to our forum are more interested in banning theirLEGAL front wing, as oppose to questioning the teams that arent trying their hardest to mimic it. It really cant be THAT hard, its just a front wing.

[FRAFPDD]

OK, the arguments are getting heated needlessly. Let's tone down the discussion to the fact and keep our snide comments to ourselves shall we?

FRAFPDD... you're getting defensive for arguing the part of the argument no one is arguing...

No one denies the wing does not flex.

No one denies the win is legal because they passed the tests that says it's legal.

The argument here is why the test is done in the first place...

And that answer it to see if there is flexibility to the wing. So weight is added to the wing... in a method no one here can claim to know, other than it's 50 or 100 Kg (I forget the figure) And the test for the wings themselves flexing, and lo a behold they pass.

What isn't being tested is the flexibility of the nose cone itself. Red Bull have done a masterful job of finding a loophole, great for them and great for those teams that can duplicate that feat.

The point it whether or not the regulations for 2012 say the nose cone itself will be tested as well. So the conclusion here is, the rich teams get it, and then it's made illegal for everyone next year, a la DDD or F-Duct... Or it's deemed illegal now, the FIA develops a test before Malaysia and Red Bull have to pass that test. Now that it's much better understood those are the only two conclusions to his issue.

I said no one here knows how it's tested... I say that simply because to pass any test for wing flexibility today all that is required is that the nosecone itself be supported by a flat plane, while the weight is being placed on the wings.... instant PASS. Where as if the nosecone is being tested while supported on a chassis.... then the weight paced on the wing may indeed cause the deflection to the ENTIRE nose cone structure. Additionally we don't (at least I don't) know if the weight is placed on both wings at once, or one wing at a time.

No offence WB but they really arent getting heated. They were at one point, and i stopped replying to him.

Also, with all due respect you are absolutely incorrect in the lines under the first one, youve totally got it wrong what everyone here is arguing.

I present my facts/arguments and you present your facts/arguments ...ahhh harmony.

I wish i understood this...seems rather philosophical.

[vaptin]

So Red Bull has abused a loop hole but no other team can figure it out. Bravo to them. Sure it might be in the category of "Unethical", but its nice to see a team going out side the box to achieve technical might.

See Vaptin*, i told you its the posters that post that occasional post-a-day that make complete sense.


*Might be Hammer, but the point stands.

I see nothing.

[F1er]

It passes the test so it's not cheating huh???

I remember many years ago I as well passed an employment drug test due to clever thinking a day after I had smoked some ganja.

DID I CHEAT???

[stonemonkey]

It passes the test so it's not cheating huh???

I remember many years ago I as well passed an employment drug test due to clever thinking a day after I had smoked some ganja.

DID I CHEAT???

I dunno:

[youtube]jyrl1G6MUz0[/youtube]

[FRAFPDD]

It passes the test so it's not cheating huh???

I remember many years ago I as well passed an employment drug test due to clever thinking a day after I had smoked some ganja.

DID I CHEAT???

[killem2]

I'm not saying it's right to exploit it, but I do think its awesome to see a team pushing the boundaries to figure something out, though it'll never be as fun as the 70s when the experimenting was really visible with wings and effects and crap.

[f1ea]

So Red Bull has abused a loop hole but no other team can figure it out. Bravo to them. Sure it might be in the category of "Unethical", but its nice to see a team going out side the box to achieve technical might.

well, that sounds quite fair; but there's been many instances in which this very same line of thought has resulted in a car getting outlawed. The question is: how come, this time... it isn't? is it because they are so safely within the rules, or simply because the FIA has simply decided to look the other way?

Everyone from the teams to our forum are more interested in banning theirLEGAL front wing, as oppose to questioning the teams that arent trying their hardest to mimic it. It really cant be THAT hard, its just a front wing.

IF it was just the wing.. then yeah... quite easy. But it isn't.

1) The front wing in relation to say the diffuser/exhaust system, is one of the most "basic" components to copy. In terms of layout
2) Theres only so many materials, if it is down to a material choice, that makes their wing able to flex under air pressure but not the FIA tests

still dont think its any funky material. it would still be under the regs and would not be able to exhibit such a dramatic change of behaviour once mounted and running.

also, dont think their front wing is that much different than other wings.

The chassis is where its at...

[F1er]

The flex wing is legal when being tested while static,but CLEARLY ILLEGAL when on track,so thats hardly an innovation!
Thats how CROOKS and DRUGLORDS think,how to one up the law,on lacing their drugs with all kinds of things so they pass customs and drug sniffing canines!

So this "Catch me if you can" way of thinking on this board,tells me that all those crooks that are passing the tests doing criminal activities is fine as well.

[vaptin]

The flex wing is legal when being tested while static,but CLEARLY ILLEGAL when on track,so thats hardly an innovation!
Thats how CROOKS and DRUGLORDS think,how to one up the law,on lacing their drugs with all kinds of things so they pass customs and drug sniffing canines!

So this "Catch me if you can" way of thinking on this board,tells me that all those crooks that are passing the tests doing criminal activities is fine as well.

F1 is supposed to be competitive. And the damage done by redbull having an excessively flexible front wing is pretty damn borderline at best.

[F1er]

The flex wing is legal when being tested while static,but CLEARLY ILLEGAL when on track,so thats hardly an innovation!
Thats how CROOKS and DRUGLORDS think,how to one up the law,on lacing their drugs with all kinds of things so they pass customs and drug sniffing canines!

So this "Catch me if you can" way of thinking on this board,tells me that all those crooks that are passing the tests doing criminal activities is fine as well.

F1 is supposed to be competitive. And the damage done by redbull having an excessively flexible front wing is pretty damn borderline at best.

I understand. I''m just tired of hearing it passes the test so it's not cheating!

[vaptin]

The flex wing is legal when being tested while static,but CLEARLY ILLEGAL when on track,so thats hardly an innovation!
Thats how CROOKS and DRUGLORDS think,how to one up the law,on lacing their drugs with all kinds of things so they pass customs and drug sniffing canines!

So this "Catch me if you can" way of thinking on this board,tells me that all those crooks that are passing the tests doing criminal activities is fine as well.

F1 is supposed to be competitive. And the damage done by redbull having an excessively flexible front wing is pretty damn borderline at best.

I understand. I''m just tired of hearing it passes the test so it's not cheating!

Yes, as long as you accept that if it passes the test you can't prove its cheating.

[killem2]

Thats how CROOKS and DRUGLORDS think,how to one up the law,on lacing their drugs with all kinds of things so they pass customs and drug sniffing canines!

And if they get caught, they will get burnt bad. I could see revoking of champion ships.

[F1er]

The flex wing is legal when being tested while static,but CLEARLY ILLEGAL when on track,so thats hardly an innovation!
Thats how CROOKS and DRUGLORDS think,how to one up the law,on lacing their drugs with all kinds of things so they pass customs and drug sniffing canines!

So this "Catch me if you can" way of thinking on this board,tells me that all those crooks that are passing the tests doing criminal activities is fine as well.

F1 is supposed to be competitive. And the damage done by redbull having an excessively flexible front wing is pretty damn borderline at best.

I understand. I''m just tired of hearing it passes the test so it's not cheating!

Yes, as long as you accept that if it passes the test you can't prove its cheating.

FFS

Let me ask you something. What kind of tests were used for Ferraris flexible floors last year and for the Michelins in Indy?

Think about it

[F1er]

Clearly legal as seen in the below pic



because it passes the test