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[nish2280]

Well JB got beside him and then went off to make the overtake. Vettel overtook and then went off. Slightly different.

And why would he be DQ'd? Jenson wasnt, why should Vettel be? If anything they should just give him a 20 second penalty...

in which case he would still have won.

[Jamie]

Well JB got beside him and then went off to make the overtake. Vettel overtook and then went off. Slightly different.

And why would he be DQ'd? Jenson wasnt, why should Vettel be? If anything they should just give him a 20 second penalty...

in which case he would still have won.

"IF"

things might have changed, Lewis might not have pushed too hard resulting in a non broken board, he might have pushed at the right minute and second resulting in a better lap, thus far he would of lead. Jb could of slowed him down drastically and Lewis would of been 1#

[vaptin]

Think Vettle should be DSQ.

If there was Grass or Gravel in that area he would of been out.

From what I can see in that pic, Vettel lengthened the circuit, unless its covered by regulation changes, thats never been penalised.

He was clearly out of the circuits bounds, this is what JB got done for.

He needed to do that because of the extra speed he was carrying.

If being out of circuit bounds gets you a punishment, they'd be handed out to half the grid.

Jenson cut the corner, he shortened the length, Vettel went on the outside - loads of drivers have done that.

[Denthúl]

If being out of circuit bounds gets you a punishment, they'd be handed out to half the grid.

Jenson cut the corner, he shortened the length, Vettel went on the outside - loads of drivers have done that.

The point that Gaz made about speed is quite relevant; if Vettel had not been carrying that speed, he wouldn't have been able to pass. He also passed outside of the circuit bounds, carrying that extra speed. Therefore he should have been penalised for it.

Look back at Raikkonen's move around the outside, off the track, in Spa 2009. Yes he went the long way round, but he could carry more speed without penalty which allowed him to get right behind Fisichella and, ultimately, take the win.

[Hammer278]

Its a loophole which is exploited by the drivers. Like you mentioned, Kimi at Spa numerous times. He deliberately used that line as he knew it was actually an advantage.

Another circuit where this happens oh so often is Hockenheim. The straight just after the tight hairpin, there's a lot of space outside the track which is used by a faster car...assuming the slower car lets them back on track.

It should be redefined, surely. But looks more like the grid has kind of accepted this practice.

[nish2280]

Well JB got beside him and then went off to make the overtake. Vettel overtook and then went off. Slightly different.

And why would he be DQ'd? Jenson wasnt, why should Vettel be? If anything they should just give him a 20 second penalty...

in which case he would still have won.

"IF"

things might have changed, Lewis might not have pushed too hard resulting in a non broken board, he might have pushed at the right minute and second resulting in a better lap, thus far he would of lead. Jb could of slowed him down drastically and Lewis would of been 1#

"IF" is not the main point of my post.

[FRAFPDD]

Well JB got beside him and then went off to make the overtake. Vettel overtook and then went off. Slightly different.

And why would he be DQ'd? Jenson wasnt, why should Vettel be? If anything they should just give him a 20 second penalty...

in which case he would still have won.

"IF"

things might have changed, Lewis might not have pushed too hard resulting in a non broken board, he might have pushed at the right minute and second resulting in a better lap, thus far he would of lead. Jb could of slowed him down drastically and Lewis would of been 1#

"IF" is not the main point of my post.

Your arugment nish revolves around the question of whether Vettel would of won or not, which nobody else is asking, nor debates.

The argument is that Vettel should be penalised for doing the exact same thing as Jenson, and honestly i think i dont know the ins and outs of the rules to start debating the subject. If it was that illegal it would at least be being debated, and nobody bar the fans has even mentioned it.....

[nish2280]

Well JB got beside him and then went off to make the overtake. Vettel overtook and then went off. Slightly different.

And why would he be DQ'd? Jenson wasnt, why should Vettel be? If anything they should just give him a 20 second penalty...

in which case he would still have won.

"IF"

things might have changed, Lewis might not have pushed too hard resulting in a non broken board, he might have pushed at the right minute and second resulting in a better lap, thus far he would of lead. Jb could of slowed him down drastically and Lewis would of been 1#

"IF" is not the main point of my post.

Your arugment nish revolves around the question of whether Vettel would of won or not, which nobody else is asking, nor debates.

The argument is that Vettel should be penalised for doing the exact same thing as Jenson, and honestly i think i dont know the ins and outs of the rules to start debating the subject. If it was that illegal it would at least be being debated, and nobody bar the fans has even mentioned it.....

Ok i see how that can be interpreted. My post was supposed to be about whether Vettel should be penalized in the same way Button was. I guess i shouldnt have used the word "IF" so that people wouldnt get the wrong idea and somehow bring in the fact that Lewis's car was damaged or that Jenson was not able to defend his position.

[Ichabod]

Did Vettel Have a upgraded chassis to Webber ?

Mark Webber seemed very upset in the interview on the BBC Red button (seemed more than just finishing in fifth)
he said he was pushing as hard as i could and that the gap was not normal

Helmut marko said ths morning that maby Mark had a problem with his chassis ?

I dont know

has anyone else heard any rumors

[Jensonb]

If being out of circuit bounds gets you a punishment, they'd be handed out to half the grid.

Jenson cut the corner, he shortened the length, Vettel went on the outside - loads of drivers have done that.

You're not being unreasonable, but there seems to be some confusion about the rule. "Cutting the corner" is not a specific offense in F1 at this time. The offense is "Exceeding the Track Limits". In a race, drivers will be warned via their teams for doing so if it doesn't have a material impact. If, however, they "maintain or gain an advantage" by exceeding the track limits, they can be issued one of the Stewards' standard penalties or asked to yield to the driver they were attacking/defending against.

"Exceeding the track limits" is defined as having all four wheels outside the white (In this case, yellow) lines defining the track edge. Vettel carried so much speed into the Turn, he ran completely wide and all four wheels left the track. That's the exact same offense as Jenson was booked for, just with a different cause. Similarly, Buemi is guilty of almost exactly the same thing exactly where Vettel did it.

The fact is, vettel's overtake would not have stuck had he braked appropriately to keep his car ontrack. Indeed, had the runoff been grass or gravel or worse, had their been a wall, he'd have lost tonnes of time or been out had he pulled that stunt.

[vaptin]

If being out of circuit bounds gets you a punishment, they'd be handed out to half the grid.

Jenson cut the corner, he shortened the length, Vettel went on the outside - loads of drivers have done that.

You're not being unreasonable, but there seems to be some confusion about the rule. "Cutting the corner" is not a specific offense in F1 at this time. The offense is "Exceeding the Track Limits". In a race, drivers will be warned via their teams for doing so if it doesn't have a material impact. If, however, they "maintain or gain an advantage" by exceeding the track limits, they can be issued one of the Stewards' standard penalties or asked to yield to the driver they were attacking/defending against.

"Exceeding the track limits" is defined as having all four wheels outside the white (In this case, yellow) lines defining the track edge. Vettel carried so much speed into the Turn, he ran completely wide and all four wheels left the track. That's the exact same offense as Jenson was booked for, just with a different cause. Similarly, Buemi is guilty of almost exactly the same thing exactly where Vettel did it.

The fact is, vettel's overtake would not have stuck had he braked appropriately to keep his car ontrack. Indeed, had the runoff been grass or gravel or worse, had their been a wall, he'd have lost tonnes of time or been out had he pulled that stunt.

It's always been like that, even when a driver defends position by cutting a chicane they're let off.

[Herbs]

Whinge whinge whinge, there was nothing wrong with what Vettel did. Did Mclaren even say anything?

[Jensonb]

Whinge whinge whinge, there was nothing wrong with what Vettel did

The rule book says otherwise.

[Herbs]

Then why wasn't he bitchslapped by the almighty stewards for being such a naughty boy? Must be a conspiracy, I'll get my tinfoil hat.

[Big Azza]

The fact that Vettel went around the outside meant that he had to travel further to get around Button. You cannot compare this too Button, who actually cut the corner.

Also consider that Vettel's racing line is severely compromised at turn 5, and on the lead up to turn 6. He did not gain an advantage.