FORUMula1.com

[madbrad]

Ralf crashed there because he is a crappy driver. He is the reason for that fiasco.

[racechick]

They could have put a chicane in, Only Ferrari wouldn't agree to it
And didnt they look stupid!! Far more stupid than the Michelin cars who couldnt race.

[McLaren Fan]

Putting a chicane in would mean having to change the car setups and would affect the figures the strategists and engineers use. It was out of the question. What was not out of the question was allowing Michelin to use different tyres and have the teams on those tyres score nothing. Yes, the scenario was caused by Michelin, however, there were several viable options the FIA could have taken which would still have penalised the Michelin teams and not take away anything from the Bridgestone teams. They didn't take them and the sport received a ton more negative press.

[Ron Dennis]

oh, we are against each power, Stephen is a flower-power hippy, and we smoke weed all together, so don't worry about it!

anyway: the indy tyres are slick tyres, they're designed to support much more G-force than a F1 tyre, and the track has just one turn in common with the real Indy (well, maybe the most exciting and also the most important turn, but still just one!)

One corner, the straight leading up to the corner and a huge straight after the corner.

the tires - regardless of the make degrade more or less depending on the surface

[Ron Dennis]

The Michelin teams had a performance limitation, all they had to do was take their foot off the gas a little and they would be fine.

Change the circuit at the last minute because Michelin came unprepared? Completely out of the question.

Why bring this up now completely out of the blue?

Oh I know, I'll start a Prost vs Senna thread...

or you could go jack off to your Schumacher calender......your contribution would be as useful

[darwin dali]

The Michelin teams had a performance limitation, all they had to do was take their foot off the gas a little and they would be fine.

Change the circuit at the last minute because Michelin came unprepared? Completely out of the question.

Why bring this up now completely out of the blue?

Oh I know, I'll start a Prost vs Senna thread...

or you could go jack off to your Schumacher calender......your contribution would be as useful

Old hat.

And a 'nice' example of how you operate: twisting things so that your team (loosely used here) looks good and your most loved enemy (loosely used again) looks bad even though the screw up happened on your team's side.

Then somebody disagrees with you, even dares to question your motives and wham, the first salvo of personal insults from you is guaranteed.

Get a life!

[Martin]

We all seem to have forgotten the important point here. Everyone is talking (arguing?) about tyre companies, how teams may or may not have been disadvantages etc. What is F1 for? Its for entetaining the fans, thats all its for. - no fans no F1 simple as that. No-one , including the FIA at the time gave 1 seconds thought to what the fans might want. The fans, both TV and 'live' wanted a race, and they didn't get one, it was a disgraceful example of F1s inward looking attitude and weak management. The FIA had a responsibility to put on a race for the fans, so it should have found a way to stage a meaningful race, instead of staging that absolute shambles which was based around what the teams wanted (Ferrari mainly). The FIA must have the power to modify rules in exceptional circumstances with appropriate (financial ) penalties to the Michelin teams.
The fans should be the number 1 consideration in these issues.
The sponsors cannot have been too pleased with that particular race - upset fans dont buy the sponsors products.

[Ron Dennis]

The Michelin teams had a performance limitation, all they had to do was take their foot off the gas a little and they would be fine.

Change the circuit at the last minute because Michelin came unprepared? Completely out of the question.

Why bring this up now completely out of the blue?

Oh I know, I'll start a Prost vs Senna thread...

or you could go jack off to your Schumacher calender......your contribution would be as useful

Old hat.

And a 'nice' example of how you operate: twisting things so that your team (loosely used here) looks good and your most loved enemy (loosely used again) looks bad even though the screw up happened on your team's side.

Then somebody disagrees with you, even dares to question your motives and wham, the first salvo of personal insults from you is guaranteed.

Get a life!

And a great example of the way you operate too

No mention is made of any teams, and I was careful to disassociate all teams from what I was saying.

But you have to try and polarize a debate with a them and us angle, you cannot remain objective and try debauch a subject in order to rally favor to your point of view.

You critisize me for resorting to insults, but I see nothing constructive from you here, in fact I see nothing from you at all other than 'old hat' and you attack my viewpoint by attacking me....which is exactly what you are accusim me of! The irony is as plain as the nose on your face! Lots of people question my points here and I don’t resort to personal insults, demures track record of being an arse for the sake of being an arse is well recorded, and my reply is nothing more than he deserves. I can point you to many posts where he openly admits to just trying to get a rise from people......trolling if you like.

So really DD, you post here shows you for what you are.

And as for get a life.....really!

[Ron Dennis]

We all seem to have forgotten the important point here. Everyone is talking (arguing?) about tyre companies, how teams may or may not have been disadvantages etc. What is F1 for? Its for entetaining the fans, thats all its for. - no fans no F1 simple as that. No-one , including the FIA at the time gave 1 seconds thought to what the fans might want. The fans, both TV and 'live' wanted a race, and they didn't get one, it was a disgraceful example of F1s inward looking attitude and weak management. The FIA had a responsibility to put on a race for the fans, so it should have found a way to stage a meaningful race, instead of staging that absolute shambles which was based around what the teams wanted (Ferrari mainly). The FIA must have the power to modify rules in exceptional circumstances with appropriate (financial ) penalties to the Michelin teams.
The fans should be the number 1 consideration in these issues.
The sponsors cannot have been too pleased with that particular race - upset fans dont buy the sponsors products.

Unfortunately my Honda came with Bridgestones!

My point is simple. corporate greed came before safety. Bridgestone knew the track was dangerous and they kept that information to themselves.

[deMuRe]

The Michelin teams had a performance limitation, all they had to do was take their foot off the gas a little and they would be fine.

Change the circuit at the last minute because Michelin came unprepared? Completely out of the question.

Why bring this up now completely out of the blue?

Oh I know, I'll start a Prost vs Senna thread...

or you could go jack off to your Schumacher calender......your contribution would be as useful

Old hat.

And a 'nice' example of how you operate: twisting things so that your team (loosely used here) looks good and your most loved enemy (loosely used again) looks bad even though the screw up happened on your team's side.

Then somebody disagrees with you, even dares to question your motives and wham, the first salvo of personal insults from you is guaranteed.

Get a life!

And a great example of the way you operate too

No mention is made of any teams, and I was careful to disassociate all teams from what I was saying.

But you have to try and polarize a debate with a them and us angle, you cannot remain objective and try debauch a subject in order to rally favor to your point of view.

You critisize me for resorting to insults, but I see nothing constructive from you here, in fact I see nothing from you at all other than 'old hat' and you attack my viewpoint by attacking me....which is exactly what you are accusim me of! The irony is as plain as the nose on your face! Lots of people question my points here and I don’t resort to personal insults, demures track record of being an arse for the sake of being an arse is well recorded, and my reply is nothing more than he deserves. I can point you to many posts where he openly admits to just trying to get a rise from people......trolling if you like.

So really DD, you post here shows you for what you are.

And as for get a life.....really!

We see through you RD, you're taking a stab at the Ferrari/Bridgestone relationship, this is why I asked why are you bringing this up out of the blue.

You must be bleeding over this season mate, especially when McLaren are about to bring the sport into even more disrepute by trying to resolve the World Championship in the court rooms.

McLaren disgust me, they should have been thrown out of F1 permanently...

[deMuRe]

demures track record of being an arse for the sake of being an arse is well recorded, and my reply is nothing more than he deserves. I can point you to many posts where he openly admits to just trying to get a rise from people......trolling if you like.

RD you are taking things too seriously, I had a go at you for attacking the mods and your racist attitude towards the spanish members of this board.

Bud and I have been having a go at each other long before you came along mate, we are just jousting...

[Ron Dennis]

The Michelin teams had a performance limitation, all they had to do was take their foot off the gas a little and they would be fine.

Change the circuit at the last minute because Michelin came unprepared? Completely out of the question.

Why bring this up now completely out of the blue?

Oh I know, I'll start a Prost vs Senna thread...

or you could go jack off to your Schumacher calender......your contribution would be as useful

Old hat.

And a 'nice' example of how you operate: twisting things so that your team (loosely used here) looks good and your most loved enemy (loosely used again) looks bad even though the screw up happened on your team's side.

Then somebody disagrees with you, even dares to question your motives and wham, the first salvo of personal insults from you is guaranteed.

Get a life!

And a great example of the way you operate too

No mention is made of any teams, and I was careful to disassociate all teams from what I was saying.

But you have to try and polarize a debate with a them and us angle, you cannot remain objective and try debauch a subject in order to rally favor to your point of view.

You critisize me for resorting to insults, but I see nothing constructive from you here, in fact I see nothing from you at all other than 'old hat' and you attack my viewpoint by attacking me....which is exactly what you are accusim me of! The irony is as plain as the nose on your face! Lots of people question my points here and I don’t resort to personal insults, demures track record of being an arse for the sake of being an arse is well recorded, and my reply is nothing more than he deserves. I can point you to many posts where he openly admits to just trying to get a rise from people......trolling if you like.

So really DD, you post here shows you for what you are.

And as for get a life.....really!

We see through you RD, you're taking a stab at the Ferrari/Bridgestone relationship, this is why I asked why are you bringing this up out of the blue.

You must be bleeding over this season mate, especially when McLaren are about to bring the sport into even more disrepute by trying to resolve the World Championship in the court rooms.

McLaren disgust me, they should have been thrown out of F1 permanently...

and this just reinforces what I just said

thanks demure, you make it so easy

[Ron Dennis]

demures track record of being an arse for the sake of being an arse is well recorded, and my reply is nothing more than he deserves. I can point you to many posts where he openly admits to just trying to get a rise from people......trolling if you like.

RD you are taking things too seriously, I had a go at you for attacking the mods and your racist attitude towards the spanish members of this board.

Bud and I have been having a go at each other long before you came along mate, we are just jousting...

oh yeah

i cannot be racist against the good people of Spain

[deMuRe]

Fair enough mate, we are all entitled to our views on things...

Let's get back on topic, why bring this up now out of the blue? Is it an itch you need to scratch or your just keeping the conversation going through the off season?

[Martin]

The Michelin teams had a performance limitation, all they had to do was take their foot off the gas a little and they would be fine.

Change the circuit at the last minute because Michelin came unprepared? Completely out of the question.

Why bring this up now completely out of the blue?

Oh I know, I'll start a Prost vs Senna thread...

or you could go jack off to your Schumacher calender......your contribution would be as useful

Old hat.

And a 'nice' example of how you operate: twisting things so that your team (loosely used here) looks good and your most loved enemy (loosely used again) looks bad even though the screw up happened on your team's side.

Then somebody disagrees with you, even dares to question your motives and wham, the first salvo of personal insults from you is guaranteed.

Get a life!

And a great example of the way you operate too

No mention is made of any teams, and I was careful to disassociate all teams from what I was saying.

But you have to try and polarize a debate with a them and us angle, you cannot remain objective and try debauch a subject in order to rally favor to your point of view.

You critisize me for resorting to insults, but I see nothing constructive from you here, in fact I see nothing from you at all other than 'old hat' and you attack my viewpoint by attacking me....which is exactly what you are accusim me of! The irony is as plain as the nose on your face! Lots of people question my points here and I don’t resort to personal insults, demures track record of being an arse for the sake of being an arse is well recorded, and my reply is nothing more than he deserves. I can point you to many posts where he openly admits to just trying to get a rise from people......trolling if you like.

So really DD, you post here shows you for what you are.

And as for get a life.....really!

We see through you RD, you're taking a stab at the Ferrari/Bridgestone relationship, this is why I asked why are you bringing this up out of the blue.

You must be bleeding over this season mate, especially when McLaren are about to bring the sport into even more disrepute by trying to resolve the World Championship in the court rooms.

McLaren disgust me, they should have been thrown out of F1 permanently...

I'm losing track here boys, why would RD have a particular problem with the firestone B/stone relationship? He does have a point about B/stone having data that suggested that the track was potentially dangerous without hard tyres, and, if he is right (I dont know) and the Mich teams had no way of knowing this until it was too late, then someone (I think the circuit owners) should have said so. I must say though that I find it strange that, in such a high tech sport, the tyre supplier seems to know nothing about the track untill Friday before the race.
And why is McL so disgusting? Lots of people have had a pop @ McL this year, using the rule book, Lewis 'driving too close to the safety car' for example. There is absolutely no doubt that Ferrari would always challenge any incident if they thought they would benefit from it. Look at the spy story - McL did receive data and should have been penalised, but Ferrari supplied the data in the first place. So why is McL so disgusting.? That is just not logical.