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[darwin dali]

All I'm saying: AP!

[scotty]

All I'm saying: AP!

Anticlimatic 15k post there DD

But yeah, he really is a case in point.

[FRAFPDD]

All I'm saying: AP!

Asscociated Press?
AP Racing?
AP High Performance Audio Analysers?
Amateur Photography?

[darwin dali]

All I'm saying: AP!

Anticlimatic 15k post there DD

But yeah, he really is a case in point.

I don't think Prost needs many words - he is the epitome of intelligent driving and not even MS (let alone AS) could compare to him in that department.

[racechick]

Another article in Autosport(by Tony Dodgins analyses whether the new rules will suit Lewis. Much agrees with what Scotty's article said. That by far the biggest consideration is the tyres (though the article discussed other things that will suit him as well as the tyre consideration)

Lewis " It's not racing, it's just driving around. The fun is the qualifyingand you're still going to getthe speedand grip there.And there will still be overtaking, so hopefullythat will be good. The tyres do hold up for a couple of laps. It's just on race distancewith 140 ilos of fuel they struggle"

the article goes on to say that a restrained approach early in the stint can be learned but at the other end of the stint when you need to hold onto an oversteering car, that will play into lewis' hands.

Lewis "I can't predict it, but yo can feel it going. It's down to making the call when you knowthe tyres are loosing temperatre and losing rubber, and then you need to be able to make the right call and hope your teamdon't say 'No dont come in"

Somehing I hadnt thought of is the way differeent cars (rather than drivers)look after their rubber. If the Ferrari and McLaren wear the tyres at the same rate then Lewis'reactive ablity and brio may be worth a few tenths. But if the Ferrari looks after its rubber( as it traditionally has) and the Mclaren does not,then the odd tenths Hamilon could make up will pale into insignificance against the seconds that could be lost.
Key to looking after the tyrs is the amount of downforce onthe car....which dosnt look good for Mclaren at the moment.
The article .... concludes that the 2011regs (tyres and other things they discussed)could be taylor made for hamilton but only if the McLaren allows him to perform to his strengths.
Excuse me bringing Hamilton into the thread but I thought there were some good points made.

[vaptin]

Another article in Autosport(by Tony Dodgins analyses whether the new rules will suit Lewis. Much agrees with what Scotty's article said. That by far the biggest consideration is the tyres (though the article discussed other things that will suit him as well as the tyre consideration)

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/89966,

Lewis " It's not racing, it's just driving around. The fun is the qualifyingand you're still going to getthe speedand grip there.And there will still be overtaking, so hopefullythat will be good. The tyres do hold up for a couple of laps. It's just on race distancewith 140 ilos of fuel they struggle"

the article goes on to say that a restrained approach early in the stint can be learned but at the other end of the stint when you need to hold onto an oversteering car, that will play into lewis' hands.

Lewis "I can't predict it, but yo can feel it going. It's down to making the call when you knowthe tyres are loosing temperatre and losing rubber, and then you need to be able to make the right call and hope your teamdon't say 'No dont come in"

Somehing I hadnt thought of is the way differeent cars (rather than drivers)look after their rubber. If the Ferrari and McLaren wear the tyres at the same rate then Lewis'reactive ablity and brio may be worth a few tenths. But if the Ferrari looks after its rubber( as it traditionally has) and the Mclaren does not,then the odd tenths Hamilon could make up will pale into insignificance against the seconds that could be lost.
Key to looking after the tyrs is the amount of downforce onthe car....which dosnt look good for Mclaren at the moment.
The article .... concludes that the 2011regs (tyres and other things they discussed)could be taylor made for hamilton but only if the McLaren allows him to perform to his strengths.
Excuse me bringing Hamilton into the thread but I thought there were some good points made.

Of course its racing, they still need to compete for position.

Agree with the rest though, I think being able to feel when you need to pit for extra grip virus just slowing down will be crucial. Think Schumacher and Brawn might love that.

[scotty]

Yeah, i agree downforce is the key.... it's the key to everything really.

I might as well mention Vettel here too, he's supposedly incredibly good at looking after the tyres and i quote "especially the rears", although i seem to remember the person who said that was Red Bull related, perhaps Horner himself so i'll just wait and see if that is actually true for myself i think... but there is evidence suggest it is very possibly the case in all honesty. Alonso is another guy who hasn't been mentioned much with regard to tyres but he's always seemed to be able to get the best out of them regardless of them being soft, hard, Michelin, Bridgestone, cold/hot weather etc etc, and perhaps Korea last year showed he can do a good job of looking after them too. Heidfeld is another man who i think has been completely overlooked with regards to how he works the tyres and his potential for thriving this season as well.

[Jensonb]

Yeah, i agree downforce is the key.... it's the key to everything really.

I might as well mention Vettel here too, he's supposedly incredibly good at looking after the tyres and i quote "especially the rears", although i seem to remember the person who said that was Red Bull related, perhaps Horner himself so i'll just wait and see if that is actually true for myself i think... but there is evidence suggest it is very possibly the case in all honesty. Alonso is another guy who hasn't been mentioned much with regard to tyres but he's always seemed to be able to get the best out of them regardless of them being soft, hard, Michelin, Bridgestone, cold/hot weather etc etc, and perhaps Korea last year showed he can do a good job of looking after them too. Heidfeld is another man who i think has been completely overlooked with regards to how he works the tyres and his potential for thriving this season as well.

Re:Vettel managing tyres, the stunt he pulled in Italy (I think) was quite impressive last year. This troper's respect increased for him after that.

[racechick]

Yeah, i agree downforce is the key.... it's the key to everything really.

I might as well mention Vettel here too, he's supposedly incredibly good at looking after the tyres and i quote "especially the rears", although i seem to remember the person who said that was Red Bull related, perhaps Horner himself so i'll just wait and see if that is actually true for myself i think... but there is evidence suggest it is very possibly the case in all honesty. Alonso is another guy who hasn't been mentioned much with regard to tyres but he's always seemed to be able to get the best out of them regardless of them being soft, hard, Michelin, Bridgestone, cold/hot weather etc etc, and perhaps Korea last year showed he can do a good job of looking after them too. Heidfeld is another man who i think has been completely overlooked with regards to how he works the tyres and his potential for thriving this season as well.

Yes Heidfeld has helped develop the tyres, he could be a dark horse this year.
On Alonso, I remember reading somethig about him at the beginning of 2007. In practise for the season he was faster than Lewis (the car was running on rubber from the previous season) but when the season started Lewis was as fast, sometimes faster. I cant remember anymore than that about what the difference in the characteristics of the tyres was. So not sure how it translates to the current change.

[vlad]

Yeah, i agree downforce is the key.... it's the key to everything really.

I might as well mention Vettel here too, he's supposedly incredibly good at looking after the tyres and i quote "especially the rears", although i seem to remember the person who said that was Red Bull related, perhaps Horner himself so i'll just wait and see if that is actually true for myself i think... but there is evidence suggest it is very possibly the case in all honesty. Alonso is another guy who hasn't been mentioned much with regard to tyres but he's always seemed to be able to get the best out of them regardless of them being soft, hard, Michelin, Bridgestone, cold/hot weather etc etc, and perhaps Korea last year showed he can do a good job of looking after them too. Heidfeld is another man who i think has been completely overlooked with regards to how he works the tyres and his potential for thriving this season as well.

Re:Vettel managing tyres, the stunt he pulled in Italy (I think) was quite impressive last year. This troper's respect increased for him after that.

Yes, it was on Monza! Fantastic driving and strategy...

[f1ea]

"But over 20 races or 19 races you can make mistakes one time in strategy or you can do a very good strategy one time but not every race, so in the end the most important thing will be to have the quickest car and we are working for that."

"It depends on the circumstances but if your model shows four pitstops are faster as a race and you think you can drive to the speed available then you could see four-pitstop races."

^^ Interesting.....

Alonso playing down the importance of tyres then, but is that just mind games to try and force the attention and pressure back to Red Bull? It might be...

Brawn confirms what i thought about strategies then, 3 stops the norm but 4 are very possible in the right situation.

Dont think Alonso is downplaying the tires, he's just saying the drivers and the teams will work around whatever their specific situation is, and in the end the most solid driver/car package will win. Because like he says, a team may make a mistake or get a weird startegy fail or succeed in one or the other race... but in the long run its going to come back to being solid over the whole bunch of races. He always points to the car, and he's right to do so.

I also think 3 stops will be the norm, and thought 4 stops to happen on extreme tracks or conditions... but Spanky said something about 3 stop being the limit. Is it because of the # of tires allocated or something else?

Heidfeld is another man who i think has been completely overlooked with regards to how he works the tyres and his potential for thriving this season as well.

Overlooked??? istnt that what comes up everytime someone mentions him?...
smooth smooth smooth; oh and experience...

This has been good for the sport, and I'll be a very happy camper if we see more than three manufactures win a GP this year.

I'd say there could be wins from at least 3-4 teams under normal conditions (RB, Ferrari, Merc and Mc); add there the odd "surprise" race like a wet Monaco, the tire situation at Canada and Turkey GPs and there could be 1 or 2 more teams coming in the mix (such as Renault or Williams).

[What's Burning?]

I also think 3 stops will be the norm, and thought 4 stops to happen on extreme tracks or conditions... but Spanky said something about 3 stop being the limit. Is it because of the # of tires allocated or something else?

yeah, with 3 stops, they're at 4 sets of tires a fourth stop would have to be on used rubber or inters!

[spankyham]

I also think 3 stops will be the norm, and thought 4 stops to happen on extreme tracks or conditions... but Spanky said something about 3 stop being the limit. Is it because of the # of tires allocated or something else?

yeah, with 3 stops, they're at 4 sets of tires a fourth stop would have to be on used rubber or inters!

In normal circumstances that's exactly right. If a team wanted to pay a "price" at Q and "try" to get through Q2 or Q3 with a used set of options, then, in theory, they could have a set of options left to make a 4th stop with. But, the math doesn't add up for that strategy really. You lose far too much by going backward on the grid. You will use up more grip/tyre passing and, in the end you gain one set of option tyres, which will give good grip for a handful of laps.

4 stops, its a complete fur-fey. It is just teams and drivers trying to give other teams and drivers the impression that they are in trouble with their tyre management.

[What's Burning?]

I also think 3 stops will be the norm, and thought 4 stops to happen on extreme tracks or conditions... but Spanky said something about 3 stop being the limit. Is it because of the # of tires allocated or something else?

yeah, with 3 stops, they're at 4 sets of tires a fourth stop would have to be on used rubber or inters!

In normal circumstances that's exactly right. If a team wanted to pay a "price" at Q and "try" to get through Q2 or Q3 with a used set of options, then, in theory, they could have a set of options left to make a 4th stop with. But, the math doesn't add up for that strategy really. You lose far too much by going backward on the grid. You will use up more grip/tyre passing and, in the end you gain one set of option tyres, which will give good grip for a handful of laps.

4 stops, its a complete fur-fey. It is just teams and drivers trying to give other teams and drivers the impression that they are in trouble with their tyre management.

I said the inters jokingly... but are they allowed to use inters when its not wet?

[spankyham]

I also think 3 stops will be the norm, and thought 4 stops to happen on extreme tracks or conditions... but Spanky said something about 3 stop being the limit. Is it because of the # of tires allocated or something else?

yeah, with 3 stops, they're at 4 sets of tires a fourth stop would have to be on used rubber or inters!

In normal circumstances that's exactly right. If a team wanted to pay a "price" at Q and "try" to get through Q2 or Q3 with a used set of options, then, in theory, they could have a set of options left to make a 4th stop with. But, the math doesn't add up for that strategy really. You lose far too much by going backward on the grid. You will use up more grip/tyre passing and, in the end you gain one set of option tyres, which will give good grip for a handful of laps.

4 stops, its a complete fur-fey. It is just teams and drivers trying to give other teams and drivers the impression that they are in trouble with their tyre management.

I said the inters jokingly... but are they allowed to use inters when its not wet?

Yep, they can use the inters in the dry.

I did say earlier that two possible reasons for a team doing a 4-stopper would be extreme bad luck or stupid driving. Well, luck can come into it, and, especially with the pay-to-drive drivers that seem to be proliferating, I would put the chances of "stupid" actually ahead of "bad luck". We may well see exactly what you've said!