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[spankyham]

But the point is they cant push with these tyres even befoe theyre worn.

A bit like asking a hundred meter finalist to tie bark on his feet and run. I guess he can find a way of running. I suppose it will make it entertaining but it feels false.

I got to disagree with you here RC.

Firstly, if you listen to all the drivers, and even Martin Whitmarsh, they all say that, in the first few laps, the Pirelli's actually give more grip than the Bridgestones ever did - It is just they degrade faster (as was requested).

Your contention is that the cars can do more - well, that was true last year and has been true ever since there's been motor racing. If tyres and aero matched the power capabilities of the cars everywhere on the track you'd have no wheel spin, no need for traction or launch control - and most importantly, once you reach that "nirvana" you'd have no need for a driver.

The purpose of a driver is to get the most out of the imperfect package he has. A few decades ago, I would have said the role/importance of the car V driver was probably 60/40. Last year I would have made it 90/10.

For me, this year's Pirelli's are simply making the driver's skills and team tactics more important to the end result.

[darwin dali]

Asked about the ongoing debate over tyre degradation, Alonso said his main concern is the effect on braking. "Before [with Bridgestone], you would come to the end of the straight and step on the brake with all your strength. Now if you do that, you block the wheels, especially the rears.

"The traction is also worse. Before you would step on the accelerator quickly out of a corner, but now it's more measured. You have to be much more sensitive."




Good - it should be that way anyway! Driver skills in higher demand this year

[vlad]

Finally, we'll see late braking, risk, and overtaking!

[What's Burning?]

A few decades ago, I would have said the role/importance of the car V driver was probably 60/40. Last year I would have made it 90/10.

It is a moving scale based on a lot of factors, but the largest factor is and always will be the car. That's why ROC events exist because the car is taken out of the equation and we're left with raw driver talent!

In any case, as artificial as this may seem to some, it is the same for everyone and other than a potential concern for the safety of some compounds on certain tracks, I'm glad tires are going to be "the" topic of 2011.

[FRAFPDD]

actually looking more forward to this season as ever now

seems therell be action the entire race what withultiple pit stops and driver skill taking a front seat!

if mclaren, mercedes, red bull and ferrari could challenge for the title i would totally wet my pants, imagine schumi hamilton vettel and alonso within touching distance on track!!!! infact throw in a massa on form and a webber button n rosberg and my mind would just explode!

[texasmr2]

actually looking more forward to this season as ever now!

Everyone say's that after they purge in the off season.

[f1ea]

I think you missed the point . Is a driver in the wet not pushing his wet's to the maximum grip his package allows??

Same case with worn tires.

But the point is they cant push with these tyres even befoe theyre worn.

You should be pushing the tyres at all times. The art of managing tyre degradation is to get pace from them and preserve their longevity.

Oh and @my screw up with the number of stops...Yeah, I just effed up.

exactly. They already are pushing the car all the time. Even when the tires are worn.

Is pushing the tires wrecking them? its the same as pushing the car and have an off! or push the car and have wheel spin. They have to deal with CONTROLLING the car while pushing all the time. Not just the tires, the tires are a cause of talk because its a new situation that many werent used to. Once they all get used to them they'll know HOW to push.

These tyres dont work the same as the Bridgestones. You just cant drive around at the pace the car is capable of. The drivers have said so. They cant push, they're off the pace. Seems a shame to spend all that time and money developing a car and then putting something on which stops it performing. I suppose the upside is if McLarens car isnt working you wont notice.

The tires don't work the same as the Bridgestone. EXACTLY! They are different, that's all. Were the 2010 tires rubbish because Button or Massa couldn't get them to heat up??
Obviously, the Mclaren guys are the ones with the worst knowledge of the tires this yr because they're the ones with the least mileage on them.
Doesnt mean the tires stops the car from performing. Whatever update they bring MUST work together with the tires, the same with how the drivers drive... but they have to UNDERSTAND the tires first. i guess everyone knows that and its the same for everyone.

The drivers that are "off the pace" are off whose pace? Red Bull's? of course they are off the pace

[racechick]

The tires don't work the same as the Bridgestone. EXACTLY! They are different, that's all. Were the 2010 tires rubbish because Button or Massa couldn't get them to heat up??
Obviously, the Mclaren guys are the ones with the worst knowledge of the tires this yr because they're the ones with the least mileage on them.
Doesnt mean the tires stops the car from performing. Whatever update they bring MUST work together with the tires, the same with how the drivers drive... but they have to UNDERSTAND the tires first. i guess everyone knows that and its the same for everyone.

The drivers that are "off the pace" are off whose pace? Red Bull's? of course they are off the pace

No not off Red Bull's pace, you miss my point. You seem to be turning this in to a moan from me because McLaren arent doing well and Red Bull are.Thats not what I mean. I know its the same for everyone, thats not in dispute.
No the 2010 tyres were not rubbish and neither are the 2011....I didnt say that either
If it turns out that these tyres really test a drivers skill then I'll be happy with them...whatever the driver, whatever the team. If it means drivers have to drive within their capabilities then I wont like it. If it challenges the strategists more than the drivers then I wont like it. But there you are, funny old me eh!

[f1ea]

No not off Red Bull's pace, you miss my point. You seem to be turning this in to a moan from me because McLaren arent doing well and Red Bull are.Thats not what I mean. I know its the same for everyone, thats not in dispute.

No, not really... i think you are just moaning about the new tires... that's about it

No the 2010 tyres were not rubbish and neither are the 2011....I didnt say that either

Ok then... were the 2010 tires not that great because Jenson and Massa couldn't get them to heat up? everything is going to fit each driver in a slightly different way.

If it turns out that these tyres really test a drivers skill then I'll be happy with them...whatever the driver, whatever the team. If it means drivers have to drive within their capabilities then I wont like it. If it challenges the strategists more than the drivers then I wont like it. But there you are, funny old me eh!

But you are already saying they don't (test a driver skill and so on).
And that's what i'm saying, i say the do test the driver's skills, simply in a different way than the other tires because they behave very differently; not because there's anything better or worse about them. So until they get used to them, some drivers/teams etc are going to feel they are off the pace. In a way they challenge everyone, the drivers, the designers, the strategists. And it seems a much better solution than inducing artificial rain, random SC or reverse grid......

We still dont know if the change is going to be all good or all bad... for example i was kinda excited about the change to Silverstone, but after the race i was like 'ok, not bad but now let's go back the old one'.

[racechick]

No not off Red Bull's pace, you miss my point. You seem to be turning this in to a moan from me because McLaren arent doing well and Red Bull are.Thats not what I mean. I know its the same for everyone, thats not in dispute.

No, not really... i think you are just moaning about the new tires... that's about it

No the 2010 tyres were not rubbish and neither are the 2011....I didnt say that either

Ok then... were the 2010 tires not that great because Jenson and Massa couldn't get them to heat up? everything is going to fit each driver in a slightly different way.

If it turns out that these tyres really test a drivers skill then I'll be happy with them...whatever the driver, whatever the team. If it means drivers have to drive within their capabilities then I wont like it. If it challenges the strategists more than the drivers then I wont like it. But there you are, funny old me eh!

But you are already saying they don't (test a driver skill and so on).
And that's what i'm saying, i say the do test the driver's skills, simply in a different way than the other tires because they behave very differently; not because there's anything better or worse about them. So until they get used to them, some drivers/teams etc are going to feel they are off the pace. In a way they challenge everyone, the drivers, the designers, the strategists. And it seems a much better solution than inducing artificial rain, random SC or reverse grid......

We still dont know if the change is going to be all good or all bad... for example i was kinda excited about the change to Silverstone, but after the race i was like 'ok, not bad but now let's go back the old one'.

The new Silverstone is ACE!!

I agree we dont know if its going to be good or bad. I think it might be bad but I hope it will be good. And Id prefer it to challenge the drivers than all those others.
Yes its way, way ,way, way better than artificial rain, random safety car, reverse grid...but its on the spectrum, as you must realise or you wouldnt have mentioned it.

[f1ea]

The new Silverstone is ACE!!

Yeah, its not bad, but the old one was..... magic hehe

but its on the spectrum, as you must realise or you wouldnt have mentioned it.

of course, i think its just a way of improving the spectacle. Maybe more like taming down the engineers who could come up with "perfect" solutions to everything that would take away any kind of a specific driver skill (such as perfect undegradeable tires etc).......

Now... the moveable rear wing, that's a thing we could all moan about with no argument

[racechick]

The new Silverstone is ACE!!

Yeah, its not bad, but the old one was..... magic hehe

but its on the spectrum, as you must realise or you wouldnt have mentioned it.

of course, i think its just a way of improving the spectacle. Maybe more like taming down the engineers who could come up with "perfect" solutions to everything that would take away any kind of a specific driver skill (such as perfect undegradeable tires etc).......

Now... the moveable rear wing, that's a thing we could all moan about with no argument

Have to agree on the last point .........no arguement

[scotty]

Fernando Alonso has no doubts the best car will still win this year's championships, despite tyre strategies being highlighted as one of the vital factors to enjoy a successful season.

Pirelli's high-degradation tyres are set to overhaul the way racing is conceived, with smooth drivers expected to have an edge over more aggressive rivals.

Ferrari driver Alonso concedes strategies will still be very important this year, but the Spaniard insists the tyres will not decide the championship.

"As usual in F1, the quickest or best car will win the championship in the end," said Alonso.

"Strategy is important, maybe one or two races will be decided by a very good strategy or someone very quick can have a mistake in a strategy point of view and lose that victory.

"But over 20 races or 19 races you can make mistakes one time in strategy or you can do a very good strategy one time but not every race, so in the end the most important thing will be to have the quickest car and we are working for that."

Alonso reckons that, unlike last year, the strategies will vary a lot from driver to driver, and he believes teams will have to be very flexible in how they approach the races.

"There are many possibilities this year," he said. "It is not like last year so that will be the most important thing. Sometimes it is better to sacrifice some laps that you know you are very slow at the end of the run, but maybe you make one stop less.

"It is a difficult call and a difficult judgement that we will need to make. We will need to be very open and very flexible in every race."

Red Bull team boss Christian Horner agrees that there will be a lot of different strategies in every race, and expects the racing to change significantly.

"I think what it is going to introduce is different-shaped races," said Horner. "You are likely to see more stops and perhaps different strategies. But at the end of the day it is the same for everybody and it is a matter of doing the best to understand the tyres and have the best strategies.

"It is something we were very strong with last year. Strategically the team was very sharp and hopefully - it is the same for everybody so we will see."

Mercedes GP team principal Ross Brawn thinks most teams will have to stop three times at each race, with four stops likely to mean losing time at most tracks.

"With these tyres you cannot afford to go into the high degradation period because they degrade in a fairly linear way and then they fall off quite a lot towards the end of their life," said Brawn. "So you don't want to be falling into that period because you can lose quite a lot of time.

"So ideally you set your car up and the drivers drive the car to get the best race time and the minimum number of stops so I think most of us will be looking at three-stop races – if you get to four stops then possibly you are using the tyres a bit harder than you should and it would be quite hard to make up that extra pitstop time.

"It does depend which track we are at because some tracks have much shorter pitstops than others. Monaco used to be an incredibly short for pitstops so that was a track where you could afford to do pitstops without too much loss.

"It depends on the circumstances but if your model shows four pitstops are faster as a race and you think you can drive to the speed available then you could see four-pitstop races."

Alonso playing down the importance of tyres then, but is that just mind games to try and force the attention and pressure back to Red Bull? It might be...

Brawn confirms what i thought about strategies then, 3 stops the norm but 4 are very possible in the right situation.

[What's Burning?]

This has been good for the sport, and I'll be a very happy camper if we see more than three manufactures win a GP this year.

[scotty]

Regarding the aspect of driver challenge, this article is relevant:

Formula 1 drivers will have a much larger role in managing tyre use and strategy in their efforts to win races than they have done before, reckons former Pirelli test driver Pedro de la Rosa.

Amid growing anticipation about how the characteristics of the 2011 Pirelli rubber are set to spice up the action from the season-opening Australian Grand Prix, de la Rosa thinks the onus of choosing the right tactics will be shifted away from teams and on to the men in the cockpit.

"I think that drivers will have to think a lot more about tyres - and how they manage the tyres," de la Rosa told AUTOSPORT in an exclusive interview. "That is not only related to strategy, because that is down more to the teams.

"As a driver you will feel the degradation earlier than the teams see the lap time loss. So I think that the driver will play a key role in knowing when the tyres are just hitting their end. If you leave it one or two laps too late you can lose five or six seconds.

"The feeling of when the tyre has gone off will be extremely important, and this is something I realised during the Pirelli testing. The tyres have a linear degradation until suddenly they have a huge drop off.

"And that huge drop-off, you will have to avoid it during any of your stints. And it will be a driver dependent decision, not a team dependent one.

"You will have to tell the team over the radio that the tyres have gone off and that you are going in. This will be interesting - as it will not just be a matter of engineers looking at a screen to pit you in."

De la Rosa, who is now a reserve driver at McLaren, believes that the excitement delivered by the tyres may be a headache for drivers and teams – but it good news for those watching the sport.

"I think it will be great for the fans," he said. "It is difficult to predict exactly how many stops we will have. You can say roughly that it will be around three, and that is fantastic.

"I remember last year that on a Thursday you already knew, no matter what the tyre compound was or which circuit it was, whether it was going to be a one-stop strategy with the window opening between lap 12 or 18. That would then be the end of the story.

"Now you have a lot of play with, and it will be more interesting for the fans. In F1 we talk about degradation, about linear degradation and non-linear degradation, but really we should think about the fans.

"Let's go to Australia, let's do the first few races and let's see what the fans think of the whole situation. And then let the teams and Pirelli decide what is next."

Basically put, the drivers firstly have to manage the tyres effectively to stave off the drop off in performance, and secondly need to have the ability to know when that point is imminent and make the call for a stop. While the effect of the new tyres on the challenge of literally driving the car quickly is perhaps debatable, i think it's hard to dismiss the fact that the more resourceful drivers with superior mental capacity are going to benefit... and F1 has never been about simply who can drive the outright quickest (and it shouldn't be).