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[Hansy]

i think red bull and ferrari will be the teams to beat in the early part, but i still think that mclaren will come good and have a chance in the constructors because of the fractions at red bull and ferrari, and no one can deny that

Hmmm its not that easy.
Considering RB and Ferrari are ahead.... how about Mercedes, Renault, Williams, Toro Rosso and Sauber ?? so far they've looked much better than Mclaren and if they are able to chew a few points from Mc they might find themselves way back by the time they catch.

Hmm, I think you're exaggerating here. You think McLaren is looking worse than those teams because you had greater expectations for them. One or two of those may actually be in front of McLaren right now, but to think they'll be so far back is unrealistic, imo.

[spankyham]

In terms of pure pace, the champions have yet to push the RB7 in full qualifying trim - with some insiders saying they believe the car has never been on track with less than 80kg of fuel on board when 10kg is usually enough for qualifying.

This is a moronic statement.

"some insiders" = untraceable unsubstantiated

How could anyone (with an IQ higher than their shoe size) believe that Red Bull would never test setups and configs for low fuel runs? If you want to say they didn't push the car, or that they were sandbagging, fair enough, but to even put out there that a team would never drive their car in low weights/fuel loads ...... cuckoo

[texasmr2]

In terms of pure pace, the champions have yet to push the RB7 in full qualifying trim - with some insiders saying they believe the car has never been on track with less than 80kg of fuel on board when 10kg is usually enough for qualifying.

This is a moronic statement.

"some insiders" = untraceable unsubstantiated

How could anyone (with an IQ higher than their shoe size) believe that Red Bull would never test setups and configs for low fuel runs? If you want to say they didn't push the car, or that they were sandbagging, fair enough, but to even put out there that a team would never drive their car in low weights/fuel loads ...... cuckoo

Wow this is.....

[nish2280]

In terms of pure pace, the champions have yet to push the RB7 in full qualifying trim - with some insiders saying they believe the car has never been on track with less than 80kg of fuel on board when 10kg is usually enough for qualifying.

This is a moronic statement.

"some insiders" = untraceable unsubstantiated

How could anyone (with an IQ higher than their shoe size) believe that Red Bull would never test setups and configs for low fuel runs? If you want to say they didn't push the car, or that they were sandbagging, fair enough, but to even put out there that a team would never drive their car in low weights/fuel loads ...... cuckoo

Maybe they meant to say that RB have never clocked a time with less than 80kg of fuel.
I remember in the Jerez thread there were suggestions that RB would go through the pit every time they were trying out quali/fast setups so as not to set times and expose their form.

Either way, it was a stupid post from Sarah Holt.

[scotty]

i think red bull and ferrari will be the teams to beat in the early part, but i still think that mclaren will come good and have a chance in the constructors because of the fractions at red bull and ferrari, and no one can deny that

These team issues at Red Bull never stopped them winning last year, and McLaren even got off to a good start...

@Scotty - There are 3 teams now with definite flexi front wings - RB & Ferrari (to a lesser degree) from last year and now Merc, but Merc's seems nearly as good as RB.

Yup. I'm guessing McLaren are looking at it too given their running of the loading measurement system. I only mention all this because Ted Kravitz wrote something about it, he said he's sure it's going to be a point of contention once again at some point...

[spankyham]

Some data on klms completed:-

Kms in 2011 Cars Only
1. Scuderia Ferrari, 6985kms
2. Red Bull Racing, 6129kms
3. Sauber, 5914kms
4. Mercedes, 5778kms
5. Toro Rosso, 5352kms
6. Renault, 5031kms
7. Williams, 4985kms
8. Force India, 4127kms
9. Lotus, 4084kms
10. Virgin, 3709kms
11. McLaren, 3603kms
12. HRT, 0Klms

Engine:
1. Ferrari 18251 km
2. Renault 15244 km
3. Mercedes 13508 km
4. Cosworth 8694 km

[vaptin]

Some data on klms completed:-

Kms in 2011 Cars Only
1. Scuderia Ferrari, 6985kms
2. Red Bull Racing, 6129kms
3. Sauber, 5914kms
4. Mercedes, 5778kms
5. Toro Rosso, 5352kms
6. Renault, 5031kms
7. Williams, 4985kms
8. Force India, 4127kms
9. Lotus, 4084kms
10. Virgin, 3709kms
11. McLaren, 3603kms
12. HRT, 0Klms

If that's accurate, McLaren are up against it, how do they plan to develop that car with so little data? Heck, based on reliability for testing, they won't even finish races. It really seems that something has gone badly wrong, or this is the mother of all sandbagging.

Although to me, it seems more likely they have a radical design that they just haven't been able to implement well, but once they crack it, they'll be laughing. I think thats more likely than the car is just rubbish through and through.

[bud]

Some data on klms completed:-

Kms in 2011 Cars Only
1. Scuderia Ferrari, 6985kms
2. Red Bull Racing, 6129kms
3. Sauber, 5914kms
4. Mercedes, 5778kms
5. Toro Rosso, 5352kms
6. Renault, 5031kms
7. Williams, 4985kms
8. Force India, 4127kms
9. Lotus, 4084kms
10. Virgin, 3709kms
11. McLaren, 3603kms
12. HRT, 0Klms

If that's accurate, McLaren are up against it, how do they plan to develop that car with so little data? Heck, based on reliability for testing, they won't even finish races. It really seems that something has gone badly wrong, or this is the mother of all sandbagging.

Although to me, it seems more likely they have a radical design that they just haven't been able to implement well, but once they crack it, they'll be laughing. I think thats more likely than the car is just rubbish through and through.

It is accurate note 2011 cars, They did do a 4 day session with the MP4-25 remember.

[vaptin]

Some data on klms completed:-

Kms in 2011 Cars Only
1. Scuderia Ferrari, 6985kms
2. Red Bull Racing, 6129kms
3. Sauber, 5914kms
4. Mercedes, 5778kms
5. Toro Rosso, 5352kms
6. Renault, 5031kms
7. Williams, 4985kms
8. Force India, 4127kms
9. Lotus, 4084kms
10. Virgin, 3709kms
11. McLaren, 3603kms
12. HRT, 0Klms

If that's accurate, McLaren are up against it, how do they plan to develop that car with so little data? Heck, based on reliability for testing, they won't even finish races. It really seems that something has gone badly wrong, or this is the mother of all sandbagging.

Although to me, it seems more likely they have a radical design that they just haven't been able to implement well, but once they crack it, they'll be laughing. I think thats more likely than the car is just rubbish through and through.

It is accurate note 2011 cars, They did do a 4 day session with the MP4-25 remember.

Oh yeah, well, maybe they should do Australia in the MP4-25 as well. No, it just looks bad, I don't know how bad it actually is.

[spankyham]

I said it before, but I think this shows up the stupidity of the testing ban.

We all scream for innovation and creativity. But look at the leading teams in testing - the ones who took the conservative just work on "what-we-know-works" approach.

McLaren have come out with some radical ideas and concepts - and for their efforts they are being heavily punished by not being allowed time to test and develop them. I'm sorry but this is partly what it killing F1.

I'm a die-hard Ferrari fan, but, if I was asked to vote I'd vote to give McLaren some extra time to test and develop their concepts and car because F1 needs new concepts and ideas! To encourage that they need to be given a chance to succeed. Perhaps McLaren were a little naive is what they undertook, but that doesn't change the fact that this simply shows how stupid the testing ban is.

[f1ea]

Hmmm its not that easy.
Considering RB and Ferrari are ahead.... how about Mercedes, Renault, Williams, Toro Rosso and Sauber ?? so far they've looked much better than Mclaren and if they are able to chew a few points from Mc they might find themselves way back by the time they catch.

Hmm, I think you're exaggerating here. You think McLaren is looking worse than those teams because you had greater expectations for them. One or two of those may actually be in front of McLaren right now, but to think they'll be so far back is unrealistic, imo.

Exaggerating?? not really. Of course, everyone more or less expects Mclaren to be amongst the strong teams, but to see them running their new car only more than HRT is worrying. They COULD have good pace, but their radical ideas could also have not worked from a performance pt of view.... thing is they dont really know. And on top of that, they could be plagued with reliability issues. That's even worse.

Something like this:

If that's accurate, McLaren are up against it, how do they plan to develop that car with so little data? Heck, based on reliability for testing, they won't even finish races. It really seems that something has gone badly wrong, or this is the mother of all sandbagging.

Although to me, it seems more likely they have a radical design that they just haven't been able to implement well, but once they crack it, they'll be laughing. I think thats more likely than the car is just rubbish through and through.

Now, if only Red Bull and Ferrari were shwing a good car, that would be not much of an uphill to catch up after a few races, but with the rest of the teams that look good already and are also good teams..... i'm saying it wont be too easy. Considering how easy it is to copy designs and radical ideas.

[bud]

It's one thing to copy radical ideas, its another thing to implement them and get them working.

Thing is McLaren hasn't done many laps that is a fact, but they haven't been that far off the pace on the days they had no reliability issues. Considering the resources they have at hand it wont be too much of a struggle once the season is under way to iron out any reliability issues and get a better understanding of the car.

[kerc]

I said it before, but I think this shows up the stupidity of the testing ban.

We all scream for innovation and creativity. But look at the leading teams in testing - the ones who took the conservative just work on "what-we-know-works" approach.

McLaren have come out with some radical ideas and concepts - and for their efforts they are being heavily punished by not being allowed time to test and develop them. I'm sorry but this is partly what it killing F1.

I'm a die-hard Ferrari fan, but, if I was asked to vote I'd vote to give McLaren some extra time to test and develop their concepts and car because F1 needs new concepts and ideas! To encourage that they need to be given a chance to succeed. Perhaps McLaren were a little naive is what they undertook, but that doesn't change the fact that this simply shows how stupid the testing ban is.

Excellent post!

[racechick]

I said it before, but I think this shows up the stupidity of the testing ban.

We all scream for innovation and creativity. But look at the leading teams in testing - the ones who took the conservative just work on "what-we-know-works" approach.

McLaren have come out with some radical ideas and concepts - and for their efforts they are being heavily punished by not being allowed time to test and develop them. I'm sorry but this is partly what it killing F1.

I'm a die-hard Ferrari fan, but, if I was asked to vote I'd vote to give McLaren some extra time to test and develop their concepts and car because F1 needs new concepts and ideas! To encourage that they need to be given a chance to succeed. Perhaps McLaren were a little naive is what they undertook, but that doesn't change the fact that this simply shows how stupid the testing ban is.

Excellent post!

Yep. Agree

[f1ea]

I said it before, but I think this shows up the stupidity of the testing ban.

We all scream for innovation and creativity. But look at the leading teams in testing - the ones who took the conservative just work on "what-we-know-works" approach.

McLaren have come out with some radical ideas and concepts - and for their efforts they are being heavily punished by not being allowed time to test and develop them. I'm sorry but this is partly what it killing F1.

I'm a die-hard Ferrari fan, but, if I was asked to vote I'd vote to give McLaren some extra time to test and develop their concepts and car because F1 needs new concepts and ideas! To encourage that they need to be given a chance to succeed. Perhaps McLaren were a little naive is what they undertook, but that doesn't change the fact that this simply shows how stupid the testing ban is.

The testing ban is stupid and against F1........ giving a team extra time is out of the question.
Why give any team "extra" time to test?? when all the other teams went and got their stuff done in time. Sure, Mclaren is allegedly coming up with innovative solutions, but then the same could be said about every other team. If they gave Mclaren extra time to test their innovations, then they should give extra time to Red Bull, Mercedes, Renault, Williams etc........... imagine that, giving Red Bull more time

They should give more testing to everyone during the season. The FIA should appoint a couple of tracks for testing, and do a couple more group testing sessions. To be precise, i'd like to see 3 or 4 more group tests, and in all these tests 30% of the miles ran should be done by the reserve/test/upcoming drivers.

They want to save money, i dont think group testing is where the money gets wasted.