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[vaptin]

Why Webber has only half the votes Vettel does is beyond me? sure if Vettel has more thats fine, infact what id say, but how can so many more think vettel?


He only led the championship after abu dhabi!

How many races was Webber faster than Vettel in?

More than enough to lead the championship most of the year?


I seriously hope youve just missed my point in your reply. Im simply asking why the gap is so large when Webber outperformed Vettel for a huge chunk of the season. Enough to be taken seriously, and yet somehow his votes are lagging? In the same breath, schumacher is equal to Rosberg despite the latter absolutely thrashing schumi, i voted schumi and said it was with my heart then with my head, but im not sure everyone has done that.

That's not what I asked, I said faster, well, what I really meant was lets discount Vettel's mechanical problems. I guess most people are assuming, those are just random factors so next year its really unlikely Vettel will be plagued with them again.

Also, this is an all or nothing poll. You either think Vettel will beat Webber, or the other way around when answering, the poll isn't answering by how much. I think its a fairly safe assumption that Vettel will beat Webber, and from the looks of the poll, most people feel that way too.

[FRAFPDD]

Why Webber has only half the votes Vettel does is beyond me? sure if Vettel has more thats fine, infact what id say, but how can so many more think vettel?


He only led the championship after abu dhabi!

How many races was Webber faster than Vettel in?

More than enough to lead the championship most of the year?


I seriously hope youve just missed my point in your reply. Im simply asking why the gap is so large when Webber outperformed Vettel for a huge chunk of the season. Enough to be taken seriously, and yet somehow his votes are lagging? In the same breath, schumacher is equal to Rosberg despite the latter absolutely thrashing schumi, i voted schumi and said it was with my heart then with my head, but im not sure everyone has done that.

That's not what I asked, I said faster, well, what I really meant was lets discount Vettel's mechanical problems. I guess most people are assuming, those are just random factors so next year its really unlikely Vettel will be plagued with them again.

Also, this is an all or nothing poll. You either think Vettel will beat Webber, or the other way around when answering, the poll isn't answering by how much. I think its a fairly safe assumption that Vettel will beat Webber, and from the looks of the poll, most people feel that way too.

Oddly enough i didnt think who was faster for most races was relevant, the compactness of their respective wdc positions told the story better.

And im not going off topic but, mechanical failures are half driving style, theres a reason hamilton, senna, mansell, vettel, kobayashi, and so on retire more then say prost, button, schumi. because the former set rag their cars like a b*itch. So although it wont ever be proven, it definitely has an impact. But lets see....

[vaptin]

Also theres the factor mentioned about how Vettel will mature, and be stronger this season - which means not making those brainless mistakes.

Webber had it in his power to win the WDC, he didn't and I can't really see why it'd be different next season.

[FRAFPDD]

Also theres the factor mentioned about how Vettel will mature, and be stronger this season - which means not making those brainless mistakes.

Webber had it in his power to win the WDC, he didn't and I can't really see why it'd be different next season.

Now your just purposely creating a one sided analysis.

everything youve said here is hyopcritical and or counts for webber too.


You say Vettel will mature, i say Webber will mature as a championship contender, was completely new for him.

you say which means not mkaing them brainless mistakes, i say those mistakes only accounted for half his DNF's etc throughout the season, Vettels driving style contriuted as much too it as anything like Hamilton does to his car failures

You say webber had it in his power to win the wdc, so did alonso, so did lewis, so did vettel, only one can win dude. does this mean alonso hamilton and webber are out of the running this year? , according to your logic we may as well skip to 2012 because you "cant see why itd be any different" yet oddly enough, you can see it being totally different for vettel, only vettel has the power to improve?


I dont even wholeheartedly disagree with you its just your logical wires are criss crossing all over the place.

If that car of RBR''s is the best car i will eat my hat if webber isnt within 20 points of vettel at the years end. that is less then a wins amount my friend.

[f1ea]

Also, this is an all or nothing poll. You either think Vettel will beat Webber, or the other way around when answering, the poll isn't answering by how much.

The difference in votes does not relate to the difference in points.... while most people i'm sure will agree they will (and can) be close....... its difficult to think Vettel will not be able to beat Webber. So yeah, looking back, i think there were 2 races or so where Webber was really faster. He was up in the standings because he made very few silly mistakes and hardly any failures. That's important too... but i guess most people are thinking Vettel is not too likely to repeat that sort of mistakes, nothing more.

In any case... i think he showed a super level head. It would have been very easy to get discouraged lets say around Spa or after Korea........ but he came into each race with a clear head and focused stare. The kid meant business.

[vaptin]

Also theres the factor mentioned about how Vettel will mature, and be stronger this season - which means not making those brainless mistakes.

Webber had it in his power to win the WDC, he didn't and I can't really see why it'd be different next season.

Now your just purposely creating a one sided analysis.

everything youve said here is hyopcritical and or counts for webber too.


You say Vettel will mature, i say Webber will mature as a championship contender, was completely new for him.

you say which means not mkaing them brainless mistakes, i say those mistakes only accounted for half his DNF's etc throughout the season, Vettels driving style contriuted as much too it as anything like Hamilton does to his car failures

You say webber had it in his power to win the wdc, so did alonso, so did lewis, so did vettel, only one can win dude. does this mean alonso hamilton and webber are out of the running this year? , according to your logic we may as well skip to 2012 because you "cant see why itd be any different" yet oddly enough, you can see it being totally different for vettel, only vettel has the power to improve?


I dont even wholeheartedly disagree with you its just your logical wires are criss crossing all over the place.

If that car of RBR''s is the best car i will eat my hat if webber isnt within 20 points of vettel at the years end. that is less then a wins amount my friend.

Vettel's younger, I reckon he still has maturity to come, not so much for Webber.
Ok brainless mistakes, if they only accounted for half his DNFs last season, yet he still beat Webber, so assuming those brainless mistakes decrease it looks even more likely that Vettel will beat Webber.

Look, we're comparing team mates, often when I post I don't make everything completely unambiguous and make it explicitly clear exactly what I mean. How many people actually talk like that? So when I said "I don't see why it'd be any different", I wasn't suggesting that 2011 will mirror 2010 exactly. I meant between the team mates, what suggestion is there that Webber will beat Vettel? I'm afraid I don't see a lot of logic in Webber being able to overhaul Vettel.

Webber being within 20 points of Vettel isn't relevant, its who is ahead that the poll is asking us to guess.

[FRAFPDD]

Also theres the factor mentioned about how Vettel will mature, and be stronger this season - which means not making those brainless mistakes.

Webber had it in his power to win the WDC, he didn't and I can't really see why it'd be different next season.

Now your just purposely creating a one sided analysis.

everything youve said here is hyopcritical and or counts for webber too.


You say Vettel will mature, i say Webber will mature as a championship contender, was completely new for him.

you say which means not mkaing them brainless mistakes, i say those mistakes only accounted for half his DNF's etc throughout the season, Vettels driving style contriuted as much too it as anything like Hamilton does to his car failures

You say webber had it in his power to win the wdc, so did alonso, so did lewis, so did vettel, only one can win dude. does this mean alonso hamilton and webber are out of the running this year? , according to your logic we may as well skip to 2012 because you "cant see why itd be any different" yet oddly enough, you can see it being totally different for vettel, only vettel has the power to improve?


I dont even wholeheartedly disagree with you its just your logical wires are criss crossing all over the place.

If that car of RBR''s is the best car i will eat my hat if webber isnt within 20 points of vettel at the years end. that is less then a wins amount my friend.

Vettel's younger, I reckon he still has maturity to come, not so much for Webber.
Ok brainless mistakes, if they only accounted for half his DNFs last season, yet he still beat Webber, so assuming those brainless mistakes decrease it looks even more likely that Vettel will beat Webber.

Look, we're comparing team mates, often when I post I don't make everything completely unambiguous and make it explicitly clear exactly what I mean. How many people actually talk like that? So when I said "I don't see why it'd be any different", I wasn't suggesting that 2011 will mirror 2010 exactly. I meant between the team mates, what suggestion is there that Webber will beat Vettel? I'm afraid I don't see a lot of logic in Webber being able to overhaul Vettel.

Webber being within 20 points of Vettel isn't relevant, its who is ahead that the poll is asking us to guess.

What you say is right, but then you finish it off with that in bold. And i completely lose faith that you can be objective!

Your last statement, if you backtrack to the original post i made youd see it was used as evidence to explain why i thought it was strange that vettel has such a huge lead, whether he finished infront or not, he only managed it by less then the legnth he can p*ss. Whether he finished ahead isnt relevant until you factor how close webber got, which is essentially what the poll is about, because it makes you make the decision one way or the other right? I just wondered why Webber less votes then he "should" CONSIDERING how close he got to Vettel last year.

[vaptin]

I guess I need to explain myself again - and I should start reading back my posts before I submit them.

I didn't mean its illogical to think that Webber can overhaul Vettel, or that the logic isn't there. Just that I don't see it. And I said logic, possibly "reasoning" would be a better word.

With Massa for example, you could argue that he was still recovering from his accident, the tyres didn't suit him but it looks like the new ones will, so he has a better chance against Alonso. But why does Webber have a better chance against Vettel this season as compared to last season, in which he lost against Vettel?

Webber and Vettel finished 2010 fairly close, but the crucial point is, when voting people are thinking Vettel won it, and on merit as well. I don't think it came down to "luck" between the two which swung it in Vettel's favour, if anything Vettel had worse "luck" (though perhaps that wasn't luck but his own doing). So, why would when voting, would there be reason for people to select Webber over Vettel?

[FRAFPDD]

I guess I need to explain myself again - and I should start reading back my posts before I submit them.

I didn't mean its illogical to think that Webber can overhaul Vettel, or that the logic isn't there. Just that I don't see it. And I said logic, possibly "reasoning" would be a better word.

With Massa for example, you could argue that he was still recovering from his accident, the tyres didn't suit him but it looks like the new ones will, so he has a better chance against Alonso. But why does Webber have a better chance against Vettel this season as compared to last season, in which he lost against Vettel?

Webber and Vettel finished 2010 fairly close, but the crucial point is, when voting people are thinking Vettel won it, and on merit as well. I don't think it came down to "luck" between the two which swung it in Vettel's favour, if anything Vettel had worse "luck" (though perhaps that wasn't luck but his own doing). So, why would when voting, would there be reason for people to select Webber over Vettel?

Yeah but people have got to (not that it matters at all, doesnt change anything) stop looking at everything so black and white, its always so and so beat so and so, any reasoned, objective, and good post will take into account everything. Not just the thick line of win and loss.

All i can say for your last question is what will bring us full circle to what i said originally, the reason people might select webber over vettel, and if your still confused about it i hope one of the 6 that voted could butt in and help us out, is because, well, theres no one reason! i could say how webber beat vettel fair and square enough times, or led the championship for most of the season, or will have a fairer chance at glory now the favoured vettel has his wdc, ive got a catalogue of reasons why i chose webber, In korea webber was favourite to win was he not, and in abu dhabi alonso was, anything can happen in f1 and it usually does, ESPECIALLY when webber was so close to the points of vettel it didnt take much strangeness to overhaul it and win.

If Lewis and Alonso were teammates at Ferrari would Lewis have twice as many votes as Alonso (forget the fanboys and how this forum is anglo-central) purely because he beat him in 2007. No, why? because look how close they finished, thats what the Alonso voters would rightly say, and its what im saying about Webbers chances.

[vaptin]

Well, it looks like we're drawing to a close, I'm only putting my reasons why I think Vettel will beat Webber, and IMO its fairly conclusive, and not as tight as 07. Whereas you clearly feel it was, and thats my explanation for the votes being quite heavily skewered in Vettel's favour.

[FRAFPDD]

Well, it looks like we're drawing to a close, I'm only putting my reasons why I think Vettel will beat Webber, and IMO its fairly conclusive, and not as tight as 07. Whereas you clearly feel it was, and thats my explanation for the votes being quite heavily skewered in Vettel's favour.

Splendid we'll agree to disagree like gentleman. *tips hat*

[vaptin]

Well, it looks like we're drawing to a close, I'm only putting my reasons why I think Vettel will beat Webber, and IMO its fairly conclusive, and not as tight as 07. Whereas you clearly feel it was, and thats my explanation for the votes being quite heavily skewered in Vettel's favour.

Splendid we'll agree to disagree like gentleman. *tips hat*

It goes a hell of a lot nicer when talking about something other than Lewis v Alonso

[f1ea]

It goes a hell of a lot nicer when talking about something other than Lewis v Alonso

Oh no! Beetlejuice Beetlejuice Beeteljuice!!

[FRAFPDD]

It goes a hell of a lot nicer when talking about something other than Lewis v Alonso

Oh no! Beetlejuice Beetlejuice Beeteljuice!!

? someone needs their meds!

[vlad]

Well, it looks like we're drawing to a close, I'm only putting my reasons why I think Vettel will beat Webber, and IMO its fairly conclusive, and not as tight as 07. Whereas you clearly feel it was, and thats my explanation for the votes being quite heavily skewered in Vettel's favour.

Nice one!