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[Hammer278]

I find it frustrating that praise is clearly linked to this idea you have of Lewis fans thinking hes perfect, so let ME get this straight, two people have now said hes not perfect, and your still harping on that we are?! Your absolutely (if you dont mind me saying jensonb) ridiculous claim that weaknesses of Lewis Hamilton are immediately dismissed is both GROSSLY misinformed and entirely absurd. ESPECIALLY given that Hammer and i have within the space of about an hour both said it isnt true. I would usualyl now state to reinforce my opinion that we dont dismiss criticism by saying that Lewis crashes a lot and tyre wear etc etc, but to be honest im so fed up and tired of doing that and STILL you come on here and tar us all with the same brush by saying that we ALL immediately dismiss our drivers flaws. Its just not true. Not true in the slightest.

Its entirely unfair given the driver we supports immense talent that we cant reap the benefits of his advantages without ebing called fanboys, but we must always address his weaknesses when it is CONSTANTLY questioned and highlighted by those that have no care for him.

No, because what you two cited were failures, not flaws. It's easy to say "he makes mistakes", because that's an indisputable fact. The matter at hand is skillset, and this discussion has done noting to refute the claim that any flaw in his skillset is immediately dismissed. Lewis is not as good at conserving tyres as Jenson is, nor is he as consistent. He is, however, out and out ultimately faster and more adaptable.

But any time someone says that, we are immediately told that no, Lewis is amazing at everything and nobody has any advantages over him at all in any aspect of driving. Just because you don't say "perfect" doesn't mean the implication isn't there.

And here in lies the confusion. I was never saying Lewis is amazing with tyre conservation. My argument and provable FACT which will materialise in 2011 is - Jenson is no master at tyre conservation, this is a MYTH. Its an excuse he uses over and over to get away with not matching his teammate's pace and many people actually fall for this bullsh*t.

Again, Lewis is no master at tyre conservation...he is a very aggressive driver. But more importantly, neither is Jenson.

To conclude - Lewis is not perfect, and neither was he the subject of the discussion. Jenson was.

[texasmr2]

I'm not sure about that arguement as JB has shown he is easier on tires and is known too be one of the smoothest drivers currently competeing.

[Hammer278]

Yes I heard this 'smoothest' thing quite a lot trust me, as I used to support Coulthard as much as Jensonb supports....Jenson.

The 'smooth' style can only do so much. No matter how much Jenson bigs it up and tries to make everyone think that his 'smooth' style is an advantage, it really isnt something which can change a race result that much. I hope no one's going to bleat about Australia 2010 or China 2010...those were mere gambles. Right place, right time. If we take any dry race (for a fair comparison on sheer pace/conservation) into account you'll see the 'smooth' style helps with squat.

[texasmr2]

Well if smooth is 'squat' tell that too this guy and see if he agree's with you . When I first got my shifter kart I was beyond 'Not smooth' but after some experienced coaching I gained almost 2sec's per lap so who is right or wrong?

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[spankyham]

There have been some changes announced by the WMSC meeting to tyres and safety car for this year.

Basically teams, at some events, will be given extra tyres for the practice sessions, but they will have to be handed back as soon as the practice sessions are over. Sometimes they will be given different compounds and sometimes they will be give the same compounds.

Safety Car changes see the pit lane exit being left open and entrance open for tyre changes. Also the SC speed limit will be kept for two laps.

The tyres mean some extra testing will be possible, but the effective 3 stop limit will be kept for the race.

Full article available here at the Pitpass site.

[f1ea]

This yr tires will play a major role.
ALL the drivers have said it. I posted some graphs showing the behaviour of the tires on one of the 'practice' threads. The tires ARE different.
I dont remember a single car/driver in last yr's testing complaining that the tires were shot after a couple laps; on the contrary we did hear more than one guy not being able to get the tires to heat up. Furthermore... last yr's tires went the whole distance, they only stopped because it was mandatory and performance improved with fuel use. This yr they will have to stop (out of necessity, because of tires) at least once. So there could be 2-3 stops, with 4 stops possibly required in the harsher tracks.

Maybe there wont even be 4 stops, and you could say they made 2 stops last yr anyway as well... But there is a difference in stopping because your tires are gone and stopping because you have to, or waiting for the other guy to stop then push like hell to jump him. That will be different this yr.

[FRAFPDD]

Well if smooth is 'squat' tell that too this guy and see if he agree's with you . When I first got my shifter kart I was beyond 'Not smooth' but after some experienced coaching I gained almost 2sec's per lap so who is right or wrong?

images55.jpg

Which is why ill always like Jenson and his driving, i just wish he did some of the things Prost did, like actually still be faster then most of the grid despite being smooth, and saving brakes for a later race challenge, but maybe he doesnt have that option. All Jenson seems to do is driver the car at its average pace, and gamble a lot on tyres. Of which one of three gambles he got majorly wrong. Jenson would be my ultimate favourite over Lewis if he was anything like Prost. But unfortunately he doesnt quite match up, neither does Lewis to Senna (although i think he surpasses him in some stuff) but Lewis is closer to Senna then Jenson is to Prost.

[spankyham]

So there could be 2-3 stops, with 4 stops possibly required in the harsher tracks.

Can't really do 4 stops, 3 is max.

[Hammer278]

Well if smooth is 'squat' tell that too this guy and see if he agree's with you . When I first got my shifter kart I was beyond 'Not smooth' but after some experienced coaching I gained almost 2sec's per lap so who is right or wrong?

images55.jpg

Are you comparing yourself to people who've been doing this nearly their whole life?

I assure you, even with this professional coaching, you're still way behind on smoothness compared to the likes of Senna and the current F1 grid. You need a certain smoothness to get the car around the track with the fastest laptime, but the styles differ. There's understeer smoothness and oversteer smoothness. Understeer smoothness is easier to call "smooth" as the rear of the car seems grounded and not very spectacular. And I do not classify Senna as understeer smooth, which is what Jenson is and David C was. People like Senna, Schumacher, Montoya as well, were more of oversteer smooth. Prost can easily be classified as understeer smooth but he won out with Senna many times thanks to his thinking head...in terms of overall pace I think many would agree Senna inches him that little bit.

[f1ea]

So there could be 2-3 stops, with 4 stops possibly required in the harsher tracks.

Can't really do 4 stops, 3 is max.

Yeah i saw that on your post..... anyway, 3 stops is plenty.

[spankyham]

So there could be 2-3 stops, with 4 stops possibly required in the harsher tracks.

Can't really do 4 stops, 3 is max.

Yeah i saw that on your post..... anyway, 3 stops is plenty.

It will have to be

Although, if a driver is suffering severe drop off before they've done 10 laps (as some drivers seem to indicate), then, even with 3 changes, they will be doing a lot of laps on crappy tyres.

[Hammer278]

We might see as many as 4 stops in tracks like Malaysia or Canada. Very smooth and abrasive tracks, recipe for Pirelli disaster.

[spankyham]

We might see as many as 4 stops in tracks like Malaysia or Canada. Very smooth and abrasive tracks, recipe for Pirelli disaster.

And why would they make a 4th stop ?

[texasmr2]

Well if smooth is 'squat' tell that too this guy and see if he agree's with you . When I first got my shifter kart I was beyond 'Not smooth' but after some experienced coaching I gained almost 2sec's per lap so who is right or wrong?

images55.jpg

Are you comparing yourself to people who've been doing this nearly their whole life?

Not at all just saying I believe I have a more insightfull view than those with no racing experience, do you have any racing experience? If you do I guess we shall just agree too disagree .

[FRAFPDD]

Well if smooth is 'squat' tell that too this guy and see if he agree's with you . When I first got my shifter kart I was beyond 'Not smooth' but after some experienced coaching I gained almost 2sec's per lap so who is right or wrong?

images55.jpg

Are you comparing yourself to people who've been doing this nearly their whole life?

Not at all just saying I believe I have a more insightfull view than those with no racing experience, do you have any racing experience? If you do I guess we shall just agree too disagree .

oh god please dont start this, its the most cringeworthy debate possible in a motorsport forum. That said i went karting for the first time ever with my football team and after my "pair" qualified us 6th i was second by the end of the lap and 1st from thereonafter. no lie. If you have the technical savvy of knowing a racing line and a natural feel to the car, the difference between a great racer and a genius racer is the 10ths of a second you are quicker then the others.