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[zurich_allan]

... and it's all to do with qualifying and the points system. I'd love to hear your thoughts before I pass the idea on to Bernie - he's bound to go with it given some of the crazy ideas he comes out with!!

Simply put, mirror the points given in the race with the SAME points given for the grid position attained. Personally I'd adopt a simple 10 points for 1st in the race / pole down to 1 point for 10th on grid / in race.

But here's the catch. It IS a reverse grid, but not the usual simple reverse. And this will sound crazy when you first think about it, but I GENUINELY believe not only would it work, but also that it is relatively simple in practice...

The grid positions, rather than being on the start / finish straight, are instead evenly distributed round the entire lap.

The practical result is that cars would start the whole way round the lap, meaning every spectator in person gets to see the race start. Sure we'd not be able to see the whole field, but so what?

You'd have the car on pole starting virtually an entire lap down on the car in last place meaning they'd have to fight their way through the whole field with NO blue flags as they would be racing for position. So in most races where now the lead car has lapped several cars, the whole field in theory would be much closer together giving the possibility of real surprise results.

Strategy would go back into the hands of the teams, as it would be impossible to simply stick everything into a simulation on computer - this would be so much better for EVERYONE who watches F1 as a neutral. Real brains would be required.

All questions would be answered on who can really overtake and who can't (if anybody has any questions of course).

Cars / teams wouldn't simply sandbag to get a slow time and qualify further ahead if the points system I suggest were used, as they'd want the points. It would also make qualifying much much more exciting and meaningful in the grand scheme of things.

As I say, I genuinely think this could work, and simply can't see a downside for the fans. It might sound crazy the first time you read it, but if you think about it, I think this type of setup could be the answer to our prayers...

Thoughts please!

[What's Burning?]

It's so crazy, Bernie would like it. Although I personally think there's nothing wrong with Q and it's actually one of the more exciting aspects of the sport, since it can and often does determine the outcome of the race.

Your idea has merits, but I think the flaw of it would stem from having tracks where it is notoriously difficult to overtake introduced into your scenario. In Monaco, who knows what would happen. Also the times between certain cars on certain tracks would mean that the top ten could and often are within one second. So an entire lap down for the car on Pole is a staggering and perhaps insurmountable distance to overcome, so in essence they would never be able to win a race that they start at the back of.

You'd really have to fiddle with the distances based on certain tracks and their passing ability, but it's not as 1/5th as ridiculous and artificial rain or shortcuts.

[FRAFPDD]

Plus side:

-points attained for your actual performance in quali, which is a huge as yet unrewarded chunk of the race weekend.
- shows who the overtakers are and rewards them
-improves the spectacle ten fold


negatives:

-quali is mainly whos got the fastest car anyway and doesnt fully reflect driver performance
- a car that knows it will qualify on pole or thereabout may sandbag to give them a better race position

[What's Burning?]

Why not just points given for overtakes?!?!

[FRAFPDD]

Why not just points given for overtakes?!?!

Great idea if its PRE- this changes

Bad idea if its incldued with zurichs proposed changes, as it only favours the cars at the back, who already have the fastest cars anyway.

[vlad]

Quali+overtaking for points, that really sounds great!

[texasmr2]

This new implication for the Texas IndyCar race could add some excitement :
http://msn.foxsports.com/motor/story/IZ ... mat-030311

[Jensonb]

Whoah, no way. That puts way too much importance on Qualifying. I'd go no further than Pole earning, say, 3 points*.

*I used to say 1, but points are worth less now

[Jamie]

Qually deserves points but then again it's proved every point counts..But qually is the most exciting aspect of F1 like Whats Burning? said

[zurich_allan]

With regard high number of points in my idea / sandbagging in qualification. The reason I suggested the points system I did is that it puts equal emphasis on both, so cars would likely not sandbag - or rather it's more likely a mid-grid team would sandbag to take a gamble on qualifying last / starting first and hoping they could hang on for a win. That's the reason for the high amount of points I suggested, as teams would really have to think about their strategy for the whole weekend at an early stage, and not just after qualifying. If it were only - say 3 points, cars DEFINITELY would sandbag, because it just wouldn't be worth the risk of starting so far behind.

Could you imagine the excitement as say Di Resta, Barrichello or Trulli were trying to keep the lead as lap by lap Vettel, Alonso or Hamilton were closing the time - 58 seconds, 56, 53......... then 10 laps to go and it's down to 7 seconds... what will happen?!? No more procession even at usually boring races, that's what!

Probably the most exciting race I ever watched was Japan 1994, and fair enough it was on aggregate timings, but watching the time difference reduce further and further lap after lap was such an exciting thing to watch!

I do agree that some tight tracks could make overtaking a problem, but then it would also FORCE the drivers in the quicker cars to at least try to overtake, even if it is throwing one up the inside! It would surely make even those tracks a little more interesting?

I honestly think this would be an excellent way to go...

[IceManpjn]

... and it's all to do with qualifying and the points system. I'd love to hear your thoughts before I pass the idea on to Bernie - he's bound
But here's the catch. It IS a reverse grid....

I stopped there.

My problem with efforts at improving racing, both already in place and proposed, is that I hate fakeness. Inverted grids are fake. Success ballast is fake. Sprinklers along F1 circuits is fake. Lanes for overtaking and for being overtaken is fake. Deliberately crappy tires is fake. I dislike fake.

(I should note something. I often used "is" when I instinctively wanted to use "are" because I was using lots of words that were plural. However, using the example of "deliberately crappy tires", while "tires" is plural I was really referring to the notion of using such a thing, and the notion is singular.)

[FRAFPDD]

... and it's all to do with qualifying and the points system. I'd love to hear your thoughts before I pass the idea on to Bernie - he's bound
But here's the catch. It IS a reverse grid....

I stopped there.

My problem with efforts at improving racing, both already in place and proposed, is that I hate fakeness. Inverted grids are fake. Success ballast is fake. Sprinklers along F1 circuits is fake. Lanes for overtaking and for being overtaken is fake. Deliberately crappy tires is fake. I dislike fake.

(I should note something. I often used "is" when I instinctively wanted to use "are" because I was using lots of words that were plural. However, using the example of "deliberately crappy tires", while "tires" is plural I was really referring to the notion of using such a thing, and the notion is singular.)

it is a VERY fine line isnt it,

are tarmac tracks fake?
man made elevation, a la eau rouge, isnt that fake?

[vaptin]

... and it's all to do with qualifying and the points system. I'd love to hear your thoughts before I pass the idea on to Bernie - he's bound
But here's the catch. It IS a reverse grid....

I stopped there.

My problem with efforts at improving racing, both already in place and proposed, is that I hate fakeness. Inverted grids are fake. Success ballast is fake. Sprinklers along F1 circuits is fake. Lanes for overtaking and for being overtaken is fake. Deliberately crappy tires is fake. I dislike fake.

(I should note something. I often used "is" when I instinctively wanted to use "are" because I was using lots of words that were plural. However, using the example of "deliberately crappy tires", while "tires" is plural I was really referring to the notion of using such a thing, and the notion is singular.)

it is a VERY fine line isnt it,

are tarmac tracks fake?
man made elevation, a la eau rouge, isnt that fake?

They are if you ask me, its just the tradition factor so people get used to it, and it becomes "natural" to them.

Although judging where your simply "spicing things up", creating more of a challenge, and stepping into orchestrating the race is difficult.

[Gaz]

Its a good idea and it would definitely create overtaking.

But if you remember Malaysia when all the cars were kinda out of place due to the wet quali Lewis made a charge for the back and everyone thought he was gonna get a podium until his tires went pop and he got stuck behind sutil.

With the new tires it wouldn't work so well you'd get the faster cars making a few positions but the tires would just go off and they'd end up 5th with a car that started 5th winning.

Besides i really like the starts.

[stonemonkey]

... and it's all to do with qualifying and the points system. I'd love to hear your thoughts before I pass the idea on to Bernie - he's bound
But here's the catch. It IS a reverse grid....

I stopped there.

My problem with efforts at improving racing, both already in place and proposed, is that I hate fakeness. Inverted grids are fake. Success ballast is fake. Sprinklers along F1 circuits is fake. Lanes for overtaking and for being overtaken is fake. Deliberately crappy tires is fake. I dislike fake.

(I should note something. I often used "is" when I instinctively wanted to use "are" because I was using lots of words that were plural. However, using the example of "deliberately crappy tires", while "tires" is plural I was really referring to the notion of using such a thing, and the notion is singular.)

it is a VERY fine line isnt it,

are tarmac tracks fake?
man made elevation, a la eau rouge, isnt that fake?

Eau Rouge fake? It was formed from public roads that followed the land.

As for cars starting all around the track, no way, not gonna make for much of a thrilling start missing out on all the cars charging into the first turn.