FORUMula1.com - F1 Forum

[f1ea]

that's because you mustn't be able to think coherently, I mean you can't even remember the season gone very well, he won 3 not 2 races.
All that you've proven is your memory has gotten worse with time.

hehe it has... but i have a selective memory. I tend to block out irrelevant stuff

Your inability to reply to my post, and deviate from answering my question speaks volume!

Really?

the BEST bit was Facepalm
[sarcastically] 25 points for me

So each is worth 6.25 pts ?? that's a weird pts system you got going.........

I'd say that Hamilton's best season was '07 too, fearless and under less pressure, he was incredibly consistently quick and made no real major mistakes to speak of. The same can not be said of any other season! I guess i'm a fool for using clear logic here then.

Doesn't mean he's bad... just that 2007 was his best yr yet.

logic would say the numbers matter, 08 then has to be his best season as he took home the prize he set out to achieve.

Ahhh but he had his teammate let him past. DQ. Unfit champion.

[bud]

here we go again, You had to didnt you!

Yeah yeah just shows your knowledge of the sport if you think that is the case. I suppose Massa and Piquet let him past too so he could win that race?
Lewis was literraly faster than Heikki by the notion of about 2 seconds a lap. Heikki was futile in fighting this so didnt.

In no way is it similar to the bullpoo Ferrari pulled in Germany 2 years later, Alonso did not deserve that win.

[F1er]

Your inability to reply to my post, and deviate from answering my question speaks volume!

Really?


Yep! I'm still waiting for an assessment on how an unimproved Lewis came on top of his 09WDC teammate!

[texasmr2]

So these four Forumula1.com members walk into a bar with one carrying a 12in Bic, one carrying a duck under his arm and the other two looking disingenuous then....... ?

[AKR]

here we go again, You had to didnt you!

Yeah yeah just shows your knowledge of the sport if you think that is the case. I suppose Massa and Piquet let him past too so he could win that race?
Lewis was literraly faster than Heikki by the notion of about 2 seconds a lap. Heikki was futile in fighting this so didnt.

In no way is it similar to the bullpoo Ferrari pulled in Germany 2 years later, Alonso did not deserve that win.

Lewis was a lot faster than Heikki so yes fighting him was futile. Comon sense says let Lewis through. Now if McLaren told him to go slower and make it look like he had problems or whatever, then good on McLaren for not making it look obvious. In the end team orders are normal. Get it in that head of yours. What Ferrari did in Germany last year is perfectly ok. And I do not have double standards like you clearly do to also acknowledge that if McLaren did use orders with Heiki, good on them.

[FRAFPDD]

Right in the futile hope of attempting to put these rabid fanboy disease to bed here are the informed unbias and objective facts:


- What Ferrari did in Hockenheim 2010 was not perfectly ok, as it was against the rules, they were fined for it.

- What Mclaren did in 2008 at the same place was NOT perfectly ok, IF Mclaren ordered Heikki to do it, i dont actually know whether they did i thought he just let them past. BUT IF there is hard evidence to PROVE Mclaren asked/ordered him to let him by, then Mclaren were also breaking the rules.

-The fact that Hamilton was perfectly able in theory at least to overtake Heikki through racing is irrelevant and no better then Ferrari IF (again) Mclaren asked Heikki to let him through. You cannot employ double standards just because Hamilton had a better chance then Alonso of overtaking him.


-Neither championship would of been/is tainted but team orders are clearly part of the sport and its the teams decision at least from this seaon onwards in whether they choose to emply them or not. If you lost to team orders pre this season then you had a right to complain about it (if you didnt employ them yourself of course) but there are no excuses this season. If you lose to team orders you lose to team orders FAIRLY ironically, as it is now allowed.


-

[f1ea]

Yep! I'm still waiting for an assessment on how an unimproved Lewis came on top of his 09WDC teammate!

So if he hasnt gotten better how did Jenson the WDC all of the sudden lose his abilities and lose to an unimproved Lewis!

And even if this "mediocre" Lewis still beats his WDC teammates on regular basis,imagine if he does improve

[quote="F1er"][quote="f1ea"]

So this is the question you're so eager to have answered?? if you were so interested in having it answered instead of trying to stress your point accross you would have put a ?? instead of a !! after it.

oh and first of all... i never called this "mediocre" Lewis. You are using this word just because someone said 2007 was his best.

But in any case.

Lewis was not better in 2010 than in 2007 because:

1. He got fewer wins, points, poles or podiums.

2. Made more crucial driving mistakes, and other less crucial, which were absent for most of 2007.

3. His car was better at the start of the season than at the end, which mean... he didn't really adapt to it nor make it better (not in time anyway). Had it not been for Abu Dhabi his entire 2nd half would have been..... mediocre.

4. Why is finishing on better point than a WDC make a driver better?? cars, rules, situations and everything change from season to season. A certain aspect that makes a driver fight for the championship one yr is absent the following, and things look rather different. Ask... Massa about 09, Kimi about 08, Hamilton about 09, Alonso about 08, Button about 10, Schumacher... Senna... Prost..... and the list goes on.... and on.... and on.

There's more reasons.... but only one would have been enough, wouldn't it?

[AKR]

- What Ferrari did in Hockenheim 2010 was not perfectly ok, as it was against the rules, they were fined for it.

-

A rule that is irrelavent to motor racing and shouldn't even exist. The rule in reality has never been implemented and has now been thus removed. Ferrari were right to ignore it has it is nonense. McLaren IF the did the same in 2008 were once again right for ignoring it. IF McLaren did break the rule, and again that is IF they did, I do not care as they were right to do so as it helped Lewis Hamilton who was their own realistic chance for a title. Do not mistaken me here. I do not defend Ferrari for breaking an irrelevant rule that should never of existed, I defend the fact the the rule is just that, irrelevant to all forms of motorsport (And it is), and I congratulate anyone that uses team orders (Including McLaren) if it benefits the team. I do not have (and never have had) double standards like some here who remain silent because they have no real answer to what I am saying.

[FRAFPDD]

- What Ferrari did in Hockenheim 2010 was not perfectly ok, as it was against the rules, they were fined for it.

-

A rule that is irrelavent to motor racing and shouldn't even exist. The rule in reality has never been implemented and has now been thus removed. Ferrari were right to ignore it has it is nonense. McLaren IF the did the same in 2008 were once again right for ignoring it. IF McLaren did break the rule, and again that is IF they did, I do not care as they were right to do so as it helped Lewis Hamilton who was their own realistic chance for a title. Do not mistaken me here. I do not defend Ferrari for breaking an irrelevant rule that should never of existed, I defend the fact the the rule is just that, irrelevant to all forms of motorsport (And it is), and I congratulate anyone that uses team orders (Including McLaren) if it benefits the team. I do not have (and never have had) double standards like some here who remain silent because they have no real answer to what I am saying.

Did you read my whole post AKR? i said this pretty much in my last point, the team order rule is stupid BUT crucially whether implemented properly or not it did exist in 2010 and 2008 and thus means what Ferrari did and Mclaren might have done were against the rules.

Again i also said that Mclaren fans are hypocrites if they think Germany 2010 is different to Germany 2008 IF Mclaren did use team orders as fact (if anyone could actually answer this itd make things clear and rid me of all these ifs and buts.


Btw welcome back, i was beginning to think the drama of abu dhabi had put you into a state of mourning.

[AKR]

- What Ferrari did in Hockenheim 2010 was not perfectly ok, as it was against the rules, they were fined for it.

-

A rule that is irrelavent to motor racing and shouldn't even exist. The rule in reality has never been implemented and has now been thus removed. Ferrari were right to ignore it has it is nonense. McLaren IF the did the same in 2008 were once again right for ignoring it. IF McLaren did break the rule, and again that is IF they did, I do not care as they were right to do so as it helped Lewis Hamilton who was their own realistic chance for a title. Do not mistaken me here. I do not defend Ferrari for breaking an irrelevant rule that should never of existed, I defend the fact the the rule is just that, irrelevant to all forms of motorsport (And it is), and I congratulate anyone that uses team orders (Including McLaren) if it benefits the team. I do not have (and never have had) double standards like some here who remain silent because they have no real answer to what I am saying.

Did you read my whole post AKR? i said this pretty much in my last point, the team order rule is stupid BUT crucially whether implemented properly or not it did exist in 2010 and 2008 and thus means what Ferrari did and Mclaren might have done were against the rules.

Again i also said that Mclaren fans are hypocrites if they think Germany 2010 is different to Germany 2008 IF Mclaren did use team orders as fact (if anyone could actually answer this itd make things clear and rid me of all these ifs and buts.


Btw welcome back, i was beginning to think the drama of abu dhabi had put you into a state of mourning.

Yes I read it all. My comment on the double standard and someone having no response was not directed at you. My appologies if it came out that way. Your point on this is as good as mine so I cannot argue with you my friend.

In regards to the drama at Abu Dhabi, I was in a state of mourning. I was too upset to talk F1 for a while and just wanted to lay low.

[Hammer278]

Yep! I'm still waiting for an assessment on how an unimproved Lewis came on top of his 09WDC teammate!

So if he hasnt gotten better how did Jenson the WDC all of the sudden lose his abilities and lose to an unimproved Lewis!

And even if this "mediocre" Lewis still beats his WDC teammates on regular basis,imagine if he does improve

So this is the question you're so eager to have answered?? if you were so interested in having it answered instead of trying to stress your point accross you would have put a ?? instead of a !! after it.

oh and first of all... i never called this "mediocre" Lewis. You are using this word just because someone said 2007 was his best.

But in any case.

Lewis was not better in 2010 than in 2007 because:

1. He got fewer wins, points, poles or podiums.

2. Made more crucial driving mistakes, and other less crucial, which were absent for most of 2007.

3. His car was better at the start of the season than at the end, which mean... he didn't really adapt to it nor make it better (not in time anyway). Had it not been for Abu Dhabi his entire 2nd half would have been..... mediocre.

4. Why is finishing on better point than a WDC make a driver better?? cars, rules, situations and everything change from season to season. A certain aspect that makes a driver fight for the championship one yr is absent the following, and things look rather different. Ask... Massa about 09, Kimi about 08, Hamilton about 09, Alonso about 08, Button about 10, Schumacher... Senna... Prost..... and the list goes on.... and on.... and on.

There's more reasons.... but only one would have been enough, wouldn't it?

Do you see the two sections bolded? Your clouded (hate) view of Lewis has got you contradicting yourself quite much.

[f1ea]

Do you see the two sections bolded? Your clouded (hate) view of Lewis has got you contradicting yourself quite much.

Really??
I think it makes perfect consistent sense.
Jenson nor Lewis have suddenly lost their abilities... things change and drivers have worse yrs. Which is what i have been saying about Lewis and his seasons after 2007. He was not better in 2010 than he was in 2007. The reasons are plenty, and dont mean he's lost his abilities or become mediocre. But the straight scoop is what i said: Lewis' best season was 2007. Sorry if you guys dont like it.

Here's another thing you wont like either: Had it not been for Abu Dhabi, Lewis' 2nd half of 2010 would have been absolutely mediocre.
ouch.

Now go talk about Massa and Germany all you like..........

[AKR]

Do you see the two sections bolded? Your clouded (hate) view of Lewis has got you contradicting yourself quite much.

Really??
I think it makes perfect consistent sense.
Jenson nor Lewis have suddenly lost their abilities... things change and drivers have worse yrs. Which is what i have been saying about Lewis and his seasons after 2007. He was not better in 2010 than he was in 2007. The reasons are plenty, and dont mean he's lost his abilities or become mediocre. But the straight scoop is what i said: Lewis' best season was 2007. Sorry if you guys dont like it.

Here's another thing you wont like either: Had it not been for Abu Dhabi, Lewis' 2nd half of 2010 would have been absolutely mediocre.
ouch.

Now go talk about Massa and Germany all you like..........

F1ea you should know by now that on this forum, the McLaren fans only want to hear one thing, that is Lewis Hamiton is great, Lewis Hamilton is the best ever F1 driver, Lewis Hamilton can do no wrong, Lewis Hamilton is greater than Michael Schumacher, McLaren never ever, ever cheat, if McLaren use team orders, (for the ones who oppose them), it is ok for McLaren to do so buit not Ferrari, Ferrari are cheats, Ferrari are the mafia, Ferrari control the FIA, Alonso is a scumbag, Alosno is a cheater, Alonso is a troublemaker, Alonso is a low life and so on and so on. To argue with them is futile because it only leads to never ending arguments. I have already proven this many times with my past posts.

[FRAFPDD]

Do you see the two sections bolded? Your clouded (hate) view of Lewis has got you contradicting yourself quite much.

Really??
I think it makes perfect consistent sense.
Jenson nor Lewis have suddenly lost their abilities... things change and drivers have worse yrs. Which is what i have been saying about Lewis and his seasons after 2007. He was not better in 2010 than he was in 2007. The reasons are plenty, and dont mean he's lost his abilities or become mediocre. But the straight scoop is what i said: Lewis' best season was 2007. Sorry if you guys dont like it.

Here's another thing you wont like either: Had it not been for Abu Dhabi, Lewis' 2nd half of 2010 would have been absolutely mediocre.
ouch.

Now go talk about Massa and Germany all you like..........

F1ea you should know by now that on this forum, the McLaren fans only want to hear one thing, that is Lewis Hamiton is great, Lewis Hamilton is the best ever F1 driver, Lewis Hamilton can do no wrong, Lewis Hamilton is greater than Michael Schumacher, McLaren never ever, ever cheat, if McLaren use team orders, (for the ones who oppose them), it is ok for McLaren to do so buit not Ferrari, Ferrari are cheats, Ferrari are the mafia, Ferrari control the FIA, Alonso is a scumbag, Alosno is a cheater, Alonso is a troublemaker, Alonso is a low life and so on and so on. To argue with them is futile because it only leads to never ending arguments. I have already proven this many times with my past posts.

I cant believe you just said this when i just had that series of posts with you, as a mclaren and lewis fan, about 20 minutes ago!

[AKR]

Do you see the two sections bolded? Your clouded (hate) view of Lewis has got you contradicting yourself quite much.

Really??
I think it makes perfect consistent sense.
Jenson nor Lewis have suddenly lost their abilities... things change and drivers have worse yrs. Which is what i have been saying about Lewis and his seasons after 2007. He was not better in 2010 than he was in 2007. The reasons are plenty, and dont mean he's lost his abilities or become mediocre. But the straight scoop is what i said: Lewis' best season was 2007. Sorry if you guys dont like it.

Here's another thing you wont like either: Had it not been for Abu Dhabi, Lewis' 2nd half of 2010 would have been absolutely mediocre.
ouch.

Now go talk about Massa and Germany all you like..........

F1ea you should know by now that on this forum, the McLaren fans only want to hear one thing, that is Lewis Hamiton is great, Lewis Hamilton is the best ever F1 driver, Lewis Hamilton can do no wrong, Lewis Hamilton is greater than Michael Schumacher, McLaren never ever, ever cheat, if McLaren use team orders, (for the ones who oppose them), it is ok for McLaren to do so buit not Ferrari, Ferrari are cheats, Ferrari are the mafia, Ferrari control the FIA, Alonso is a scumbag, Alosno is a cheater, Alonso is a troublemaker, Alonso is a low life and so on and so on. To argue with them is futile because it only leads to never ending arguments. I have already proven this many times with my past posts.

I cant believe you just said this when i just had that series of posts with you, as a mclaren and lewis fan, about 20 minutes ago!

Sorry, I stuffed up again. Really I am very sorry. Please accept my appologies. I should of said some McLaren fans here. I just am feeling a bit emotional right now. I do not know why and I tend to make mistakes in my wording of things when doing so. I am sorry FRAFPD. Very sorry.