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[scotty]

McLaren didn't test the MP4-25 in the first tests for their entertainment, they gathered data on tire wear and degradation rates and general feel as well as any other bits from the MP4-26 they felt they could test in that car. If you combine the miles the difference isn't as great. We know they're a test behind, so I'm not sure where the pessimism or optimism is coming from... for any team.

My thoughts have been gathered based on what engineers, drivers and some journalists (who have all been present at all the tests) have been saying. Probably the best source at this stage really... Don't get that confused with me reading into times though, it's nothing to do with that.

As for McLaren, i think they took somewhat of a gamble in trying to get 'reliable' tyre info over putting laps on the new car, and now they're suffering because they're having reliability issues that are preventing them getting the mileage in and actually learning about the new car itself alongside the Pirellis, while the other teams for the most part got this 'phase' out the way at the first test. Obviously that leaves McLaren at a disadvantage, at least in the short term. It probably isn't helping them that certainly Hamilton (dunno about Button) isn't enjoying these new tyres thus far. I certainly question McLaren's logic in bringing the new car out late when Hamilton was saying ""It feels difficult to know how much of it is car and how much is tyres" just last Sunday.

[f1ea]

Mclaren are a bit behind on testing. Period. They will get some extra time to 'think' about stuff, but they wont have mileage to run, and i think they need the mileage.

With the extra time perhaps Ferrari will benefit a litte bit because they actually have the mileage, but there are no concepts to "copy" yet, such as the front exhaust etc) for most teams because they still dont know what works (is faster) and what isn't...... so... if red Bull is actually ahead, i think a week or two wont change that........

[What's Burning?]

McLaren didn't test the MP4-25 in the first tests for their entertainment, they gathered data on tire wear and degradation rates and general feel as well as any other bits from the MP4-26 they felt they could test in that car. If you combine the miles the difference isn't as great. We know they're a test behind, so I'm not sure where the pessimism or optimism is coming from... for any team.

We'll know what the cars really look like after Q3 in Australia. I think I've read that somewhere on this thread previously.

Well, go away and don't post on testing threads then, actually don't post anything on f1 until the end of Q3 in Australia

I'm whittling an F1 car out of wood. I should have it done by March 25th.

[spankyham]

Ferrari - mileage is so valuable for them - a big plus for the team. I think we are in a very good position.

Red Bull - good mileage and a car that has to be fast - it's an evolution of the standout best car from last year. For me there's a very big question mark though. They spent so many hours in Barcelona doing heat testing, and still they seemed to be plagued with problems there. That is not good considering they were testing in relatively cool conditions. Rumour is they are burning the floor of the car. Positive side for them is you can make a fast car reliable. They need to sort this and the delay to the season starting will help them.

McLaren - No disrespect to Red Bull, but, as a Tifoso, I want to beat a strong McLaren. I respect and admire their approach to this year, they have tried to be exactly what we want - innovative and creative. But innovations and new things take exponentially longer to test and development. This is the stupidity of F1's limited testing. As a die-hard Ferrari fan, I would vote yes to letting McLaren be given some extra test days simply to reward their attempted innovation. Hopefully we will see a complete lifting of the test ban soon.

Renault - ditto on the innovation and being allowed to test more their FEE. Super sad the Kube can't start the season in this car. Quick Nic gets another chance to find something to blame for his under-performance. I just want to see Robert back in this car.

Merc - they didn't look too good to start with but the miles they put in will pay off. They think they have the fastest car in a straight line.

KERS - Could have potential, stupid implementation rules mean its a massive waste of time and money. Top teams will get a small benefit.

MRW - I hate this gimmick and still wish they'd get rid of it. The only good thing is they can change the rules of implementation. Why oh why does F1 have this fetish about the need to keep changing rules?

Pirelli's - Almost the best thing about 2011 as far as I'm concerned. Tyre that never wear out are like traction control. They hide driver's skill deficiencies. The new tyres wearing like they do put the emphasis back on the driver's skill. I expect to see some changes in the top teams in regards to who is top dog.

[Hammer278]

All good points, though for this aspect:

Pirelli's - Almost the best thing about 2011 as far as I'm concerned. Tyre that never wear out are like traction control. They hide driver's skill deficiencies. The new tyres wearing like they do put the emphasis back on the driver's skill. I expect to see some changes in the top teams in regards to who is top dog.

Rather, I expect the gaps to be even bigger between these teammates compared to 2010. With the exception of Ferrari, Massa can only improve from his doldrum driving last year.

[Robert12010]

i think that is the one thing about the mclaren like you say spanky, they tried something different ''outside the box'' style thinking it just needs time to develop

[What's Burning?]

Pirelli's - Almost the best thing about 2011 as far as I'm concerned. Tyre that never wear out are like traction control. They hide driver's skill deficiencies. The new tyres wearing like they do put the emphasis back on the driver's skill. I expect to see some changes in the top teams in regards to who is top dog.

I couldn't agree with you more here, but like Hammer said, I'm thinking the tires may go either way, tighten the gap between teammates OR expand it.

My reasoning is dues to the fact that if they can go a full race on one stop (highly unlikely) then it massively benefits the smooth drivers. If they can go on two stops then it benefits the smooth drivers but much less of a benefit. If however they need 3 stops, then the advantage goes back to the aggressive drivers as the degradation of tires is so quick as to impact all drivers to a degree, and the third tire change brings it further back to allowing for a bit of aggressiveness in the styles.

What I am looking forward is the chess games where a driver 8th or 9th on the grid winds up with a podium finish due to a smart tire strategy.

[FRAFPDD]

Pirelli's - Almost the best thing about 2011 as far as I'm concerned. Tyre that never wear out are like traction control. They hide driver's skill deficiencies. The new tyres wearing like they do put the emphasis back on the driver's skill. I expect to see some changes in the top teams in regards to who is top dog.

I couldn't agree with you more here, but like Hammer said, I'm thinking the tires may go either way, tighten the gap between teammates OR expand it.

My reasoning is dues to the fact that if they can go a full race on one stop (highly unlikely) then it massively benefits the smooth drivers. If they can go on two stops then it benefits the smooth drivers but much less of a benefit. If however they need 3 stops, then the advantage goes back to the aggressive drivers as the degradation of tires is so quick as to impact all drivers to a degree, and the third tire change brings it further back to allowing for a bit of aggressiveness in the styles.

What I am looking forward is the chess games where a driver 8th or 9th on the grid winds up with a podium finish due to a smart tire strategy.

I can only agree if i see that the tyres are equal if not more grippier whilst they last then their counterparts of Bridgestones.

The stuff spanky said on traction control is spot on, thats letting machines do too much of what should be driver skill, but is managing tyres a criteria in racing drivers, thats debatable, i mean, if the tyres turn out to be super grippy by degrade fast thats great, but they seem to have made tyres where you cant race hard on them Vettel, Hamilton style, AND seem pretty tailor made to......err........no drivers criteria.....

[nish2280]

McLaren didn't test the MP4-25 in the first tests for their entertainment, they gathered data on tire wear and degradation rates and general feel as well as any other bits from the MP4-26 they felt they could test in that car. If you combine the miles the difference isn't as great. We know they're a test behind, so I'm not sure where the pessimism or optimism is coming from... for any team.

We'll know what the cars really look like after Q3 in Australia. I think I've read that somewhere on this thread previously.

Well, go away and don't post on testing threads then, actually don't post anything on f1 until the end of Q3 in Australia

I'm whittling an F1 car out of wood. I should have it done by March 25th.

Sell it to HRT, maybe they will win a race.

Maybe.

[Hammer278]

Have you guys seen the new Williams livery? Supposedly they were running an interim livery through testing. I just checked it out at their website...

I prefer their 'testing' livery.

[Jamie]

As from a another post this seems predictable.....


Saracasim, Well i didn't expect to see Rosberg up there neither did I expect Massa....


Will Heidfeld be able to improve? Shessshhh....Strange I just remembered that Kubica and Heidfeld used to be partners.../BMW/

[What's Burning?]

Have you guys seen the new Williams livery? Supposedly they were running an interim livery through testing. I just checked it out at their website...

I prefer their 'testing' livery.

Although it's not bad... I like the retro styling of the interim as well.

[spankyham]

Pirelli's - Almost the best thing about 2011 as far as I'm concerned. Tyre that never wear out are like traction control. They hide driver's skill deficiencies. The new tyres wearing like they do put the emphasis back on the driver's skill. I expect to see some changes in the top teams in regards to who is top dog.

I couldn't agree with you more here, but like Hammer said, I'm thinking the tires may go either way, tighten the gap between teammates OR expand it.

My reasoning is dues to the fact that if they can go a full race on one stop (highly unlikely) then it massively benefits the smooth drivers. If they can go on two stops then it benefits the smooth drivers but much less of a benefit. If however they need 3 stops, then the advantage goes back to the aggressive drivers as the degradation of tires is so quick as to impact all drivers to a degree, and the third tire change brings it further back to allowing for a bit of aggressiveness in the styles.

What I am looking forward is the chess games where a driver 8th or 9th on the grid winds up with a podium finish due to a smart tire strategy.

I can't see many races going beyond two stoppers (unless a driver really cocks-up). Nando did 40 laps on one set at practice already - that's pushing towards a one stop strategy.

Agree on the strategy - which is why I really like what the Pirelli's add to this season.

[spankyham]

.... is managing tyres a criteria in racing drivers

FOr me I'd say yes.

Tyres are no different to fuel. Drivers have to manage their fuel to get through the race. We saw and heard drivers/engineers going into fuel saving mode lots of times last year. A complete driver has to be able to race with his available resources, car, engine, gearbox, fuel etc all have to be conserved to make them last - tyres for me are no different.

[vlad]

Is there another test to take place 8-11th march?