FORUMula1.com - F1 Forum

[nish2280]

One would think with all the attempts of the FIA to force cost reductions, they would want tires to last as long as possible. Force pit stops means needless replacements of tires and wasted money.

Surely they've been throwing away tyres anyway?

Has the number of tyres allocated to a driver on a race weekend been increased?

I hope so

Otherwise friday testing is going to be really boring with drivers just putting in 15 laps and then running out of tires

[Fred_C_Dobbs]

Concerns remain over tyre degradation

"...[O]ne correspondent among the inner sanctum suggest[ed] "this is beyond degradation, this is destruction...."



"...[W]orld champion Sebastian Vettel seems resigned to the fact that he'll be heading to the pits three times a race...."

"...Typically marbles are limited to the outside of the corners, where the lateral load on the tyre rolls balls of rubber off their surface. That straights are littered with rubber is something altogether new.

More worrying is the size of some of the marbles. Some have been so large the term 'marble' fails to adequately describe them, necessitating a new term, perhaps 'super marble.'..."

"...Given the fallout after Indianapolis in 2005, when the Michelin shod teams were forced to abandon the race when it became apparent the tyres couldn't sustain the loads being asked of them, Pirelli seems to have little to gain but a lot to lose. Furthermore, the inability to test in the extreme heat of Bahrain, where tyre wear is expected to be more of a factor, hasn't helped."

[Hammer278]

Lots of DNFs I forsee....

[What's Burning?]

If it's that bad we'll be seeing a lot of races with Hard and Soft as the option. Safety is one thing, and if there is indeed a safety concern then is has to be addressed, but as long as it's the same for everyone... it's just another aspect to factor into the racing.

[Fred_C_Dobbs]

If they're bad enough, you might see rules amended before season's end dropping the requirement for tyres to be separated by two compounds. Then Pirelli could bring hards and intermediates, which might enable the faster teams to finish on just two pit stops. Or they could shelve the rule requiring teams run both compounds.

Or maybe Bernie will implement his plan to install snow machines on all circuits. Studded tyres have substantially longer life.

[What's Burning?]

If they're bad enough, you might see rules amended before season's end dropping the requirement for tyres to be separated by two compounds. Then Pirelli could bring hards and intermediates, which might enable the faster teams to finish on just two pit stops. Or they could shelve the rule requiring teams run both compounds.

Or maybe Bernie will implement his plan to install snow machines on all circuits. Studded tyres have substantially longer life.

I had an exchange with Spanky about this... I think the more stops, the less of an advantage there is to the drivers known for good tire management skills.

[myownalias]

I think the Indianapolis debacle was a different situation; that was the year where the FIA thought it'd be a good idea to ban tyre stops; that a big difference to the current issue; the Michelin tyres could last if tyre stops were permitted; Michelin pulled their teams from the race because they feared the tyres would not last the full race distance!

[Jensonb]

If they're bad enough, you might see rules amended before season's end dropping the requirement for tyres to be separated by two compounds. Then Pirelli could bring hards and intermediates, which might enable the faster teams to finish on just two pit stops. Or they could shelve the rule requiring teams run both compounds.

Or maybe Bernie will implement his plan to install snow machines on all circuits. Studded tyres have substantially longer life.

I had an exchange with Spanky about this... I think the more stops, the less of an advantage there is to the drivers known for good tire management skills.

It's more complicated than that. It's a parabolic factor depending on just how marginal the tyres are. Broadly speaking though, if it's three routinely, the advantage is diminished compared to if it's two. With one, it makes no difference because you can't have zero stops thanks to the absurd Mandatory Pit Stop.

[racechick]

My understanding of the tyre situation. The Pirelli tyres differ from the Bridgestones in how they behave. Pirelli have been keen to ensure safe tyres but dont have all the years of knowledge that Brigestone have gathered . The result is a tyre that is quite stiff. The stiff tyre doesnt lay rubber down like a softer one and so the track wont rubber in. The tyres will run cooler and cause degredation (lots of marbles and even strips of rubber). This will make going off line to overtake very very difficult. This type of degredation is different to the tyre wear on the Bridgestones, which was due to the tyres running too hot. The advantage some drivers got on the Bridgestones was by managing to keep the tyres below the temperature at which their performance would drop off. No such advantage will be available to those drivers now. Rear tyres will suffer most, so the drivers to gain advantage will be those who like oversteer.
Here endeth the simplified version of tyre science

[Jensonb]

My understanding of the tyre situation. The Pirelli tyres differ from the Bridgestones in how they behave. Pirelli have been keen to ensure safe tyres but dont have all the years of knowledge that Brigestone have gathered . The result is a tyre that is quite stiff. The stiff tyre doesnt lay rubber down like a softer one and so the track wont rubber in. The tyres will run cooler and cause degredation (lots of marbles and even strips of rubber). This will make going off line to overtake very very difficult. This type of degredation is different to the tyre wear on the Bridgestones, which was due to the tyres running too hot. The advantage some drivers got on the Bridgestones was by managing to keep the tyres below the temperature at which their performance would drop off. No such advantage will be available to those drivers now. Rear tyres will suffer most, so the drivers to gain advantage will be those who like oversteer.
Here endeth the simplified version of tyre science

That sounds more like a wish than science.

[Fred_C_Dobbs]

Martin Whitmarsh tells the other teams to shut up and race!

"It's easy to step into the car and complain, but we want more pit-stops and we want cars that at various stages of the race are fighting with their tyres - that's part of the show.

"Bridgestone were always a great partner, but from my position at FOTA I have heard several times in recent years pressure for tyres with more risk.

"Now we publicly criticise the degradation of these (Pirelli) tyres. The job of tyre-supplier is a thankless one, as the higher wear is a feature that was requested to make the show better."

[vaptin]

He's right though, although we'll have to wait until a few races in to see what happens in practice.

[spankyham]

Lewis Hamilton's latest comments on this years Pirelli tyres.

F1 : Lewis Hamilton - New tyre supplier Pirelli making Formula 1 painfully slow Monday, 07 March 2011 08:46

Formula One has shifted down a gear for the 2011 season, according to Lewis Hamilton.

The 2008 World Champion says that although adjustable rear wings and KERS have upped the drivers' workload, the Pirelli tyres have made the cars slower.

"I did (a) run the other day and it was painfully slow, it really was. Just not exciting, to be honest," the Briton is quoted by the Guardian.

Hamilton, whose boss Martin Whitmarsh last week urged the sport to ease its critique of Formula 1's new tyre supplier, is the latest voice to openly criticise Pirelli, revealing he was "down to the canvas" after a 9 lap run in testing.

But like Whitmarsh, there are other supportive figures.

"We want good and safe tyres, but with low durability for the races in the interests of the show," Spain's AS newspaper quotes Virgin technical director Nick Wirth as saying.

[Hammer278]

From what I understand, these tyres will lose grip very quickly but this doesn't mean that chances of punctures or tyre damage are higher correct? You'll just be running on crappy tyres making crappy laptimes if you choose to not go into the pits?

[Jensonb]

Bunch of crybabies Heaven forbid they actually have to race strategically.

Shut up and drive boys.