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[Hexagram]

I don't think anyone can say who will be the fastest based on looks! Only an illogical fool would go out on a limb and suggest a car is faster because of a prettier diffuser or nose nose cone!

Diffuser theory is based on what Scotty posted in the 2011 car thread. His pictures of each diffuser are good and that's my feeling from them all.

He also felt that Red Bull were looking good. Have you had a look at his particular post?

Edit: It's in the Valencia testing thread: viewtopic.php?f=2&t=9855&start=105

[bud]

It's the first test, McLaren and some others haven't even ran their new cars yet. How can you compare their cars to the ones who haven't ran yet?
Getting excited over the first test and making assumptions because of it is a futile past time.

Even the teams admit you wont have any clear idea until the last couple of tests, even then come first race for a proper idea.

[texasmr2]

^^^^

[Hexagram]

It's the first test, McLaren and some others haven't even ran their new cars yet. How can you compare their cars to the ones who haven't ran yet?
Getting excited over the first test and making assumptions because of it is a futile past time.

Even the teams admit you wont have any clear idea until the last couple of tests, even then come first race for a proper idea.

You compare the cars by design because that's all you have to go by during winter testing. The best bit of the winter of testing is the confusion and guessing of who's fastest.

Your kidding yourself if you haven't been checking out the times at the end of each day looking for signs of who's fast and then reading what sort of runs everyone is doing. Who's fast over long stints, short stints, medium length stints. Who's tyres are in best shape after each type of run.

Talking about it is a bit of craic, don't be such a sook because I reckon Red Bull and Ferrari are looking good. I know some teams haven't run so I'm going by their design.

[bud]

[
Your kidding yourself if you haven't been checking out the times at the end of each day looking for signs of who's fast and then reading what sort of runs everyone is doing.

No I wasn't im not a hypocrite! I'll be looking closely at the last couple of tests. Even then I wouldnt be too confident in predicting the pecking order until the end of the first race.

Look you can go play make believe guess games all you like over which part of a car looks fast compared to others. Go have fun with that. Ferrari and Redbull look fastest what a joke.


stop the press the fastest cars are already apparent!!

[What's Burning?]

I think the case has been stated on both sides, no need repeating.

[Hammer278]

Ferrari and Red Bull look to have the best cars imo. Less attempted tricks going on, their designs look confident and both of them have unique and clean looking rear diffuser set ups. (Specially Red Bull)

I'd be willing to put my money where my mouth is and say they will be the pace setters in Bahrain.

That's not to say McLaren, Renault & Mercedes won't be in the mix too. I've just got a feeling Ferrari and Red Bull are ahead.

Not to disrespect your feeling but its like me saying I think Virgin will be Champions because they are the only team with the cool CFD approach.

But lets see who's ruling the roost in Bahrain....

[Jabberwocky]

However sometimes, if something looks right then it is

[FRAFPDD]

Struggle to find the logic in Costa considering the Red Bull of 2010 was quite unreliable but extremely fast, and they sewed that up despite Alonso and Hamilton performing IMO much better then the drivers of RB throughout the year, so i disagree Mr Costa, balance brings you home some nibbles of points, and looking at the Ferrari compared to the innovation seen in the back end of the williams, or the exhausts of the renualt, or the sidepods of the Mclaren, id say this is cheap talk.

[nish2280]

[
Your kidding yourself if you haven't been checking out the times at the end of each day looking for signs of who's fast and then reading what sort of runs everyone is doing.

No I wasn't im not a hypocrite! I'll be looking closely at the last couple of tests. Even then I wouldnt be too confident in predicting the pecking order until the end of the first race.

Look you can go play make believe guess games all you like over which part of a car looks fast compared to others. Go have fun with that. Ferrari and Redbull look fastest what a joke.


stop the press the fastest cars are already apparent!!

Honestly i would like it if people were doubting the speed of the team i support, it would make the victory sweeter.

[vlad]

Drivers said that these tyres can last only something like 10 laps... That will be one of the most important factors this season.
The other one are the buttons and switches on the steering wheel...
We'll see how things run...

[Fred_C_Dobbs]

Several of the teams are showing more forward thinking in their designs for 2011, which I would submit is a logical response to the success demonstrated in the two most recent seasons by the teams with the more radical designs.

ESPNF1:
Ferrari's technical director Aldo Costa has played down fears the new Ferrari is too conservative when compared to its rivals...

..."I think the fastest car will be the one with the best performance balance between aerodynamics, the mechanical side and reliability,"...

A positively brilliant non-statement. And demonstrably incorrect.

Reliability be hanged, between a front wing wider than the English Channel and all the damned TilkeDromes, a car need only be fastest on the final lap of Q3 to win the race. Costa is making excuses for the fact that Ferrari have just discovered they've arrived for a gunfight armed with a badminton racquet.

This probably should be the goal of the FIA thinking about it more, to come up with a set of regulations that balance all three, would make things interesting.

Brilliant! Why not just issue all the teams the same identical car, let them paint on their logos and be done with it?

[vaptin]

This probably should be the goal of the FIA thinking about it more, to come up with a set of regulations that balance all three, would make things interesting.

Brilliant! Why not just issue all the teams the same identical car, let them paint on their logos and be done with it?

That's not what I said or meant. I meant a set of regulations which attempted to shift the balance and force teams into focusing equally on those three aspects,

[f1ea]

I think the tires will be crucial... not so much the new wings and buttons. A balanced car may be good to develop from if its initially fast; if it gets blown away then it becomes more difficult to improve. I dont think the fastest car will be the most balanced........ it could be the car with the most points at the end of the season, but being balanced and fastest sounds like sort of a contradiction to me.

So yeah... no way of knowing who's got the fastest car...... given that most teams are still bringing in and tuning their cars until the real stuff and that testing is only meant to get to know the car, not really to show who's the fastest. These people are competitive though, so they'd be happy to get P1 even in testing... but until its blood for blood, testing is only entertainment.

From Alonso himself:

Q: When will you know the level of competitiveness?

Only at the first race can you have that picture. Look at what happened last year, where in the early testing we were very quick, but then we went to Barcelona for the last pre-season test and ended up sixth quickest, behind Sauber and Force India. So we went to Bahrain thinking we were sixth quickest team and ended up lapping both the Force India and the Sauber. Not even the last test is representative and only at the first race can we really know where we stand. Until we get to Bahrain we all have question marks

Other interesting comments:

Q: What aspect of the new car has made an impact?

I have to say I'm a bit surprised by the level of reliability the F150 showed so far! We've had zero problems here, zero problems when we run it in the factory, in the test rig, and zero problems when we ran it at Fiorano on the filming day. That's unusual for a brand new car and a very positive sign. In the past we did runs of three to five laps in the first day, to check everything on the car, but today our first run was 12 laps and we had no concerns about reliability. The other surprise was the tyre degradation. They lasted just one lap at their best and then suffered quite a lot. I saw the same was happening to other drivers so we all have to learn how to use these new tyres to be well prepared once we get to Bahrain.

Q: Last year, after just one day of running, you said the F10 was the best car had ever driven. Can you say the same about the F150?

I think it's a bit too soon to say that. The loss of the double diffuser has cost performance to all teams. Last year we ran here in 1m11.4s on the first day of the pre-season, today we were running 1m13s-1m14s. To reach the level of performance we had last year in Abu Dhabi we'll need months of hard work and development.

[bigpat]

Discuss.

Well, last year we saw that the Ferrari was the best car mechanically (imo - evidenced by their speed on very mechanical tracks such as Monza and Singapore) and so we could reasonably expect more of the same this year. Generally speaking, i'd say that recent trends have shown that it's easier to develop aero over the course of the season compared to the mechanical side, but the flipside is that if you start off behind in the aero stakes you will probably always be playing catch up, and there's a hell of a lot of circuits where aero is the key. In many ways Costa is stating the obvious here though (as am i, perhaps ).

You know what i think'll produce the fastest car? The car that works the tyres best, regardless of everything else...

In my opinion, the Red Bull was the best car mechanically (in terms of grip). Monaco, and Hungary, where mechanical grip is emphasised, more so than aero were tracks where the RB-6 was quickest. (Kubica's Monaco qualifying notwithsatnding). I would still count Monza, and Montreal as a power tracks, where the Ferrari engine outgrunts the Renault hands down. The Red Bull always looked supple over kerbs and bumps, indicating a compliant mechanical set-up, and a forgiving aero package.

I also, don't think aero grip is easier to develop, its that the gains are greater, when compared to mechanical grip. Mechanical grip has more variables that can be adjusted, and cheaper to do. I think you tend to concentrate on what gives you the greater gain.

As for a balanced car, being quicker overall...Maybe he was confident of his teams efforts, until he saw what everyone else came up with. If Ferrari get beaten early on, I don't think we'll see a 'aero conservative' car for long, with inspiration coming undoubtedly from others in pitlane, if they haven't started the process already.......