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[Hammer278]

Another way of looking at it, team orders = office politics in sport.

We all have to deal with it, I'm sure the highly paid prima donnas are justified to deal with it as well.

[f1ea]

Now hypothetically.............................race 1 of f1 season...........Webber is leading but RBR feel that Seb is the best fit for WDC and tell Web to let him by........race 2 Button 1st but Macca tells him Lewis needs a free pass........during the same race Massa is told that Alonso is waving his fist again so he needs to pass..................10 laps later Ross tells Rosberg that it's best for the team that Michael is ahead....................... and so forth

Your being foolish with that post, and it took great restraint for me to stop there.

It's quite self policing, fans and sponsors won't stand for constant swapping around of drivers (and didn't with Schumacher Austria), they will when its clear and necessary(Massa Kimi 08), Alonso- Massa Germany 10 was somewhere in between.

At anyrate, there are still plenty of other teams out there for the driver to race.

Pitwall calls are made all the time.

I think the expected top 4 teams have all said they'll initially give their drivers equal treatment.

I dont think that post foolish at all. That could easily happen if all teams took the same stance as Ferrari.

The top four teams have said they'll 'initially' give their drivers equal treatment have they? And what does 'initially' mean? Until Alonso starts waving his arms about in the first race? If they're prepared to give equal treatment why the fuss to reinstate team orders, the banning of which guaranteed (well should have!!) exactly that.

Do you both seriously think/believe Ferrari would issue a team order in the first race of the season?? or that such a scenario of several teams switching drivers within a race is anywhere near realistic??

Get real

Discussing a rule on the basis of a dreamt up fantasy scenario is pointless..........

[F1er]

Yes I actually do believe that for whatever reason Massa is ahead,Alonso will go bezerk and we'll hear Felipe baby on the radio!!!!!!!!!! Plus it's ferrari and they have no shame

[f1ea]

Yes I actually do believe that for whatever reason Massa is ahead,Alonso will go bezerk and we'll hear Felipe baby on the radio!!!!!!!!!! Plus it's ferrari and they have no shame

Really?
So... if that doesn't happen will you reconsider your beliefs?

[bud]

Yes I actually do believe that for whatever reason Massa is ahead,Alonso will go bezerk and we'll hear Felipe baby on the radio!!!!!!!!!! Plus it's ferrari and they have no shame

Really?
So... if that doesn't happen will you reconsider your beliefs?

Alonso demands preferential treatment what ever team he is in. He demands it from race one to the last race.

[F1er]

Yes I actually do believe that for whatever reason Massa is ahead,Alonso will go bezerk and we'll hear Felipe baby on the radio!!!!!!!!!! Plus it's ferrari and they have no shame

Really?
So... if that doesn't happen will you reconsider your beliefs?

But it already has why would it be any different!!!

[What's Burning?]

Another way of looking at it, team orders = office politics in sport.

We all have to deal with it, I'm sure the highly paid prima donnas are justified to deal with it as well.

How dare you call me a highly paid primadonna?!

[Hammer278]

How highly paid are you? I admit the term is quite generic.

[What's Burning?]

How highly paid are you? I admit the term is quite generic.

Not nearly enough to buy me a super car, not that I'd buy one anyway

EDIT: anyway, mo money mo problems. My neighbor across the street just got a 458 Italia... I wonder if I should keep my fire extinguisher ready? Mo money Mo problems.

[f1ea]

Alonso demands preferential treatment what ever team he is in. He demands it from race one to the last race.

Preferential treatment does not mean switching position on race 1. I doubt there's any clause or demand allowing this to happen.
Preferential treatment could very well be something like Kubica being allowed to race Rallies and other drivers not (being allowed). If the team went on with the contract, them i'm sure its nothing that's either illegal nor unreasonable for the team.

But it already has why would it be any different!!!

The scenario you described above has already happened?

[spankyham]

Its' something i feel really strongly about. But I can see your point of view. The fact that you believe one driver can be selected as the prime racer for that team and everyone has to help that driver. I can see it but i dont like it or think its fair.
Why isnt it going to be in a teams interest? It happened last year when it was banned so why should it not happen this year when its legal?

I did post previously about the generational divide, which WB has also acknowledged. He also raises the cultural issue as well, which I agree is relevant.

I think a large part of the issue lies in our perceptions of the hierarchy that exists within the team. The hierarchy I refer to consists of the team, driver A and driver B. Ferrari, Massa and Alonso. I see that structure as being:-
The team goal is not to promote a particular driver, but to ensure winning, this is primary and is above either driver.

TO1.png

I think your view is like this:-
Where the team promotes Alonso always

TO2.png

I guess I would ask you this question, if Alonso's or his car had a problem at a race and Felipe was closing in on him as well as Vettel. And if on the current lap times both Felipe and Vettel would catch Nando, do you think Ferrari as a team would take the risk and tell Felipe to hold position (and risk getting either one or both cars passed or perhaps even being penalized for blocking) or do you think they would order Felipe past and take the guaranteed win?

I know they would tell Felipe to pass and it would be done in a heartbeat. No hesitation.

[bud]

Alonso demands preferential treatment what ever team he is in. He demands it from race one to the last race.

Preferential treatment does not mean switching position on race 1. I doubt there's any clause or demand allowing this to happen.
Preferential treatment could very well be something like Kubica being allowed to race Rallies and other drivers not (being allowed). If the team went on with the contract, them i'm sure its nothing that's either illegal nor unreasonable for the team.

Preferential treatment in Alonso's case means not letting his team mate beat him. Being the man the team puts their efforts behind. Alonso is happy in this situation.

I liked Ferrari when Kimi and Massa were there, it was even Stephen's only in the last couple of races would they play swappsies.

[What's Burning?]

Alonso demands preferential treatment what ever team he is in. He demands it from race one to the last race.

Preferential treatment does not mean switching position on race 1. I doubt there's any clause or demand allowing this to happen.
Preferential treatment could very well be something like Kubica being allowed to race Rallies and other drivers not (being allowed). If the team went on with the contract, them i'm sure its nothing that's either illegal nor unreasonable for the team.

But it already has why would it be any different!!!

The scenario you described above has already happened?

It doesn't have to be so superficial... it could simply be a demand to remove all brown M&Ms from his candy dish.

[spankyham]

Yes I actually do believe that for whatever reason Massa is ahead,Alonso will go bezerk and we'll hear Felipe baby on the radio!!!!!!!!!! Plus it's ferrari and they have no shame

Really?
So... if that doesn't happen will you reconsider your beliefs?

Alonso demands preferential treatment what ever team he is in. He demands it from race one to the last race.

There is only one preferential treatment clause that counts and that's in Fernando's and every Ferrari drivers contract.

All drivers must accept that Ferrari, (as in the team), comes first - ahead of any driver

[spankyham]

I liked Ferrari when Kimi and Massa were there, it was even Stephen's only in the last couple of races would they play swappsies.

I couldn't agree more with this. I really really wish that Felipe is right up there for the whole season.