FORUMula1.com - F1 Forum

[FRAFPDD]

You guys are mistaken if you think this is one isolated incident. Judgemental responses are therefore rather out of order when not all the facts are known.

So you dare to defend such action and have the cheek to call our responses out of order, mods are supposed to be a beacon of impartiality and reason, DD seemingly banned JensonB just for disagreeing, there was no green mod response, it was a blatant, i cant be bothered to deal with your opposing opinion and now ill use my superiority to shut you up. Id be livid if i was JensonB. If all the facts are not known, be a dear and explain them to us, or is it top secret mods only information that cannot be discussed with me. He did nothing that i havent seen others do.

[Gaz]

I've made a post about this in the website issues section, please can we have some openness as to why this is happened.

Its an F1 forum, not the Gestapo.

[What's Burning?]

Beating_a_dead_horse.jpg

I think this is far more of an issue with some fans and media (feeding on those fans emotions). Jenson is just being smart and using this emotion and the guaranteed media attention any statement containing the words "team" and "order" will get.

Historically Team Orders were always there, and far more blatant than anything we've seen in the 21st century.

The dynamic that's changed is that in F1's more recent history a significant number of fans follow a driver primarily rather than a team.

It always bring a smile to my face when I wonder how's today's media and fans would have reacted to Fangio taking over the other team car to win a race. Can you imagine that happening in your favourite team nowadays?

I'd love to see today's media and political response to Kennedy shtupping Marilyn Monroe.

[Robert12010]

You guys are mistaken if you think this is one isolated incident. Judgemental responses are therefore rather out of order when not all the facts are known.

So you dare to defend such action and have the cheek to call our responses out of order, mods are supposed to be a beacon of impartiality and reason, DD seemingly banned JensonB just for disagreeing, there was no green mod response, it was a blatant, i cant be bothered to deal with your opposing opinion and now ill use my superiority to shut you up. Id be livid if i was JensonB. If all the facts are not known, be a dear and explain them to us, or is it top secret mods only information that cannot be discussed with me. He did nothing that i havent seen others do.

well guys lets not discuss the point any further, frafpdd its good that your standing up for fellow members, but as we dont know all the facts prehaps we're not in a positon to say,

[Hammer278]

Whats this, the thread has converted from 'JB on team orders' to 'Why is JB given marching orders'??

Let's try to stick with the topic...I'm sure there are many dead horses left in this world with sticks lying around.

[vaptin]

You want race results to be drawn out of a hat?

yeah that would be more interesting than seeing a race leader pull over for his team mate in 2nd place.

Think I can respond to this without breaking the off season peace pact (although its in ruins anyway), of course you find team orders interesting, look at how much you've talked about it. Positive interest, pretty much no.

[killem2]

I'm ok with team orders but only if its pretty clear some one is far far behind in points. If you have two drivers and half way through the season one driver just isn't preforming as well as the other start making a choice.

I don't agree with race fixing which is when other teams work together against the field that is wrong. Surprising that the two red bull teams are allow to be there like that, even if they are going to keep it honest just seems like a conflict of interest.

At the time germany rolled around felipe wasn't exactly miles behind Fernando, and I think felipe took a moral blow. If anything though red bull renault has showed that you can let two drivers go toe to toe and still come out on top

[F1er]

Team Orders are race fixing. Simple as.

Nuhuh - not according to the FIA.

The FIA can bite me, race fixing is where you manipulate the outcome. That's exactly what team orders are, by definition.

Trying to win is manipulating the outcome, is that race fixing also?

A soccer player passing the ball to his team-mate in a better position to score - he's trying to manipulate the outcome, is that game fixing?

A coach or manager praising players for passing and assisting other team mates to score - is that also match fixing?

So when Lewis won the WDC.................WHAT DID HEIKI GET??????????? teammates my a@@! You do know there are 2 sides of the garage ??????
Just like in MotoGP where teammates race e/o all the time

As for your soccer analogy Everyone lifts the trophy and get a medal!!!!!!!!
Have any of you seen WEB celebrating Sebs WDC???Just for the sake of being teammates

As I said in this post, I believe it is a generational thing. What the newer followers of F1 in some areas do is follow a driver. Way back when I started following F1 the focus was far more concentrated on the team.
.

Newer followers? Ayrton Senna has more fans than god!!
For the same length of time that the tifosi say it's been about the team there have also been Sennas and Prosts fighting e/o!!!

If you want F1 to be a team sport!!!!!!!!!!! Either/or
1 no WDC
2 only 1 driver scores points
3 have both drivers use 1 car

other than that switching positions on track via radio is Race manipulation

[What's Burning?]

Team Orders are race fixing. Simple as.

Nuhuh - not according to the FIA.

The FIA can bite me, race fixing is where you manipulate the outcome. That's exactly what team orders are, by definition.

Trying to win is manipulating the outcome, is that race fixing also?

A soccer player passing the ball to his team-mate in a better position to score - he's trying to manipulate the outcome, is that game fixing?

A coach or manager praising players for passing and assisting other team mates to score - is that also match fixing?

So when Lewis won the WDC.................WHAT DID HEIKI GET??????????? teammates my a@@! You do know there are 2 sides of the garage ??????
Just like in MotoGP where teammates race e/o all the time

As for your soccer analogy Everyone lifts the trophy and get a medal!!!!!!!!
Have any of you seen WEB celebrating Sebs WDC???Just for the sake of being teammates

As I said in this post, I believe it is a generational thing. What the newer followers of F1 in some areas do is follow a driver. Way back when I started following F1 the focus was far more concentrated on the team.
.

Newer followers? Ayrton Senna has more fans than god!!
For the same length of time that the tifosi say it's been about the team there have also been Sennas and Prosts fighting e/o!!!

If you want F1 to be a team sport!!!!!!!!!!! Either/or
1 no WDC
2 only 1 driver scores points
3 have both drivers use 1 car

other than that switching positions on track via radio is Race manipulation

There's enough variety in team philosophy as well as charismatic/talented drivers for everyone to choose what camp they'd prefer to support. Baskin Robbins makes 31 flavors so there's never going to be a single solution to this that suits everyone. Team orders are now allowed, whether we like it or not.

[killem2]

Question, do the teams themselves gain any monetary stuff for a driver getting first place? If not I can't see why anyone would mess with team orders. I thought the drivers champion ship is for the drivers and the constructors is for the teams.

[F1er]

Question, do the teams themselves gain any monetary stuff for a driver getting first place? If not I can't see why anyone would mess with team orders. I thought the drivers champion ship is for the drivers and the constructors is for the teams.

Haha,now thats the problem!! The team earns ZERO$$ or anything of that value All the money comes from the WCC besides bragging rights I dont see what teams gain from WDC

[vaptin]

Question, do the teams themselves gain any monetary stuff for a driver getting first place? If not I can't see why anyone would mess with team orders. I thought the drivers champion ship is for the drivers and the constructors is for the teams.

Haha,now thats the problem!! The team earns ZERO$$ or anything of that value All the money comes from the WCC besides bragging rights I dont see what teams gain from WDC

Prestige is important. The ability to attract the best drivers and top sponsors.

[F1er]

Question, do the teams themselves gain any monetary stuff for a driver getting first place? If not I can't see why anyone would mess with team orders. I thought the drivers champion ship is for the drivers and the constructors is for the teams.

Haha,now thats the problem!! The team earns ZERO$$ or anything of that value All the money comes from the WCC besides bragging rights I dont see what teams gain from WDC

Prestige is important. The ability to attract the best drivers and top sponsors.

I thought F1 is about who builds the best car,hence whomever wins WCC gets all the Prestige!!

We all realize that there are about 10 drivers capable of winning WDC in a great car!!

The only purpose the WDC serves...................is to please the FANS,and keep them following their favorite drivers in the pursuit of it!!

[vaptin]

The glory is in the WDC,

[F1er]

The glory is in the WDC,

And than we're back at the start Is it more or less "glorious" winning the WDC when team orders are implemented??

Glory; very great praise, honor, or distinction bestowed by common consent; renown: to win glory on the field of battle.
something that is a source of honor, fame, or admiration; a distinguished ornament or an object of pride

and team orders are the total opposite of GLORY