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[Hammer278]

Agree with tex. Could we get back to why JB is so vocal about team orders please??

[texasmr2]

Agree with tex. Could we get back to why JB is so vocal about team orders please??

Thank you . There is a previous thread that mentioned his supposed resentment with team orders so I was just hoping that discussion could be continued thats all.

[spankyham]

Team Orders are race fixing. Simple as.

Nuhuh - not according to the FIA.

The FIA can bite me, race fixing is where you manipulate the outcome. That's exactly what team orders are, by definition.

Trying to win is manipulating the outcome, is that race fixing also?

A soccer player passing the ball to his team-mate in a better position to score - he's trying to manipulate the outcome, is that game fixing?

A coach or manager praising players for passing and assisting other team mates to score - is that also match fixing?

So when Lewis won the WDC.................WHAT DID HEIKI GET??????????? teammates my a@@! You do know there are 2 sides of the garage ??????
Just like in MotoGP where teammates race e/o all the time

As for your soccer analogy Everyone lifts the trophy and get a medal!!!!!!!!
Have any of you seen WEB celebrating Sebs WDC???Just for the sake of being teammates

As I said in this post, I believe it is a generational thing. What the newer followers of F1 in some areas do is follow a driver. Way back when I started following F1 the focus was far more concentrated on the team.

If you watch a movie called "Le Mans" with Steve McQueen, it wasn't that great a movie, but, at the time, it was good because it used real Le Mans footage mixed into the story. I recall, just like at F1 races at the time, they would rarely call a drivers name. they would call it "the number 2 Porsche" or "the leading Ferrari". Watch the movie and you'll get an idea of what I mean.

Sure, you can get people who are disappointed in their performance in a winning or loosing team, but, IMO, everyone that is part of a team eventually feels happiest that their team wins. Your analogy about Webbo feeling down and not celebrating like Seb at the end of last year - I can understand your point, but, if it weren't a team sport then it's just Seb who should have been celebrating - but clearly the whole team was celebrating. And that's is why it is still a team sport.

I think Jenson is a very clever driver and he uses this to enforce his position in the team after a less than stellar end of last year.

[bud]

If it's such a team sport then do away with the drivers title and just have a constructors title. After all a drivers title is an individual award not a team award!

[racechick]

Team orders in F1 are not fair. Not fair to one of the drivers in the team who is on the wrong end of them. Neither are they fair to people who bet on the sport and people who enjoy watching real racing. I follow a driver more than a team but i wouldnt want my driver to be gifted wins. I follow him because he's a driver who fights tooth and nail on the track for a win. Gifted wins are hollow wins. Its the reason I had less respect for Schumacher and part of the reason I dislike Alonso. Its not sporting.

[spankyham]

If it's such a team sport then do away with the drivers title and just have a constructors title. After all a drivers title is an individual award not a team award!

I don't expect you'll understand this, but, I see the WDC as much a team win as the WCC. As I mentioned above, all the RB mechanics and team members celebrated when Seb won last year, not just the driver, so there is at least some element of "teamness" about the WDC. To me, the WCC is the best taking into account both cars performances. The WDC is the best single car performance.

Either way, lets keep the WDC

[Juliet P]

After a previous warning by a mod, tonight's the night buddy JB - you won yourself a fishing trip

Hmm, nothing like waking up to discover that the admin of the forum and a former mod have been deliberately antagonising (bear-baiting, perhaps?) an established member on a subject on which they know he holds strong views and then using the fact that the thread inevitably gets heated (on both sides, by the way) to ban him.

Doesn't quite seem fair that an admin/mod can pick a fight with a member and then ban them - surely it should be a different admin/mod who takes that decision in order to provide objectivity?

[HelpFindMeA.co.uk]

If team orders were a big issue Ferrari should of been kicked out but they wasn't! Just a fine which they had plenty of where that came from!

The FIA wouldn't allow it this season but they clearly have because every team knows. If they have a chance of winning the team championship they will concentrate on that! In Ferrari's situation they knew the numbers were against there odds and the only hope is to back a driver.

I see it in betting situations where a bet is lost but unfortunately as a team you have to try win something!

[FRAFPDD]

After a previous warning by a mod, tonight's the night buddy JB - you won yourself a fishing trip

Hmm, nothing like waking up to discover that the admin of the forum and a former mod have been deliberately antagonising (bear-baiting, perhaps?) an established member on a subject on which they know he holds strong views and then using the fact that the thread inevitably gets heated (on both sides, by the way) to ban him.

Doesn't quite seem fair that an admin/mod can pick a fight with a member and then ban them - surely it should be a different a
dmin/mod who takes that decision in order to provide objectivity?

gotta say having read all posts, i find it astounding the manner in which jensonb received that ban, and wholeheartedly agree with the above.

[Robert12010]

because formula1 has a constuctor championship and driver championship, there is always going to be two sides to the story, but personally i would rather have two drivers racing each other, like mclaren, like red bull because with ferrari, it wasnt team ferrari, its team alonso and that will continue to happen until either he leaves or massa leaves and someone goes in there and upsets alonso

[Robert12010]

After a previous warning by a mod, tonight's the night buddy JB - you won yourself a fishing trip

Hmm, nothing like waking up to discover that the admin of the forum and a former mod have been deliberately antagonising (bear-baiting, perhaps?) an established member on a subject on which they know he holds strong views and then using the fact that the thread inevitably gets heated (on both sides, by the way) to ban him.

Doesn't quite seem fair that an admin/mod can pick a fight with a member and then ban them - surely it should be a different a
dmin/mod who takes that decision in order to provide objectivity?

gotta say having read all posts, i find it astounding the manner in which jensonb received that ban, and wholeheartedly agree with the above.

come on you guys......

[scotty]

You guys are mistaken if you think this is one isolated incident. Judgemental responses are therefore rather out of order when not all the facts are known.

[What's Burning?]

Hmm, nothing like waking up to discover that the admin of the forum and a former mod have been deliberately antagonising (bear-baiting, perhaps?) an established member

Let's put things into perspective here.

Yesterday I woke up to learn that a much loved F1 driver was fighting for his life and nearly lost a limb and will be lucky to get back into an F1 car this year.

[Hexagram]

You guys are mistaken if you think this is one isolated incident. Judgemental responses are therefore rather out of order when not all the facts are known.

I agree. Obnoxious, over aggressive, always right attitude == ban.

On the topic of the thread though. I agree with Jenson but F1 is a team sport like Rally. The team wants one of their drivers to win and will always do what they can.

Massa also sucked for the whole year pretty much, there was no drop off in his form after Germany.

Out qualified and out raced all year, it was the right move by Ferrari that we will see again this year if Massa can't match Alonso race to race again even if Massa has a mathematical shot at the title.

In Germany even Schumacher still had a shot, find me someone who reckons he could have won? Mathematical chance means nothing if your not performing.

[What's Burning?]

You guys are mistaken if you think this is one isolated incident. Judgemental responses are therefore rather out of order when not all the facts are known.

I agree. Obnoxious, over aggressive, always right attitude == ban.

On the topic of the thread though. I agree with Jenson but F1 is a team sport like Rally. The team wants one of their drivers to win and will always do what they can.

Massa also sucked for the whole year pretty much, there was no drop off in his form after Germany.

Out qualified and out raced all year, it was the right move by Ferrari that we will see again this year if Massa can't match Alonso race to race again even if Massa has a mathematical shot at the title.

In Germany even Schumacher still had a shot, find me someone who reckons he could have won? Mathematical chance means nothing if your not performing.

We all have opinions, and we all have boundaries of acceptance, although I respect the conviction of RB last year regarding team orders there were certainly reproachable or at least questionable moments. So every team has their own philosophy and it's up to the fan to either accept it or more their support.

Whatever Jenson's reasoning, they're his own opinion and he's comfortable at McLaren because they've made him feel comfortable. You can't win a constructor's championship with only one driver scoring points.