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[spankyham]

Why is it harder to overtake with the wing down?

The rear wing is in a "steep" or as you've called it "down" position when its something like this (from China 2010):-


The rear wing is in a "flat" or "up" position when its something like this (from Monza 2010):-


The new rule will allow a rear wing that looks like the first picture "down" change to perform like the 2nd one "up".

When a wing is "down" it provides more downforce by creating better friction between the car and road (the wing and the other aeros are pushing the car onto the road very hard. This is useful going around corners but no so useful in a straight line because the additional friction reduces the top speed.

[What's Burning?]

And, in the end, if it works exactly how everyone wants it to, I for one, will consider a pass, made possible by some 3rd party (not the car or the driver) as crap and not worthy of any praise.

I'm not sure what you mean by this. How is a movable rear wing different than a movable front wing, or an f-duct or KERS, what is the car if not every component on it?

My biggest fear in all of this is not the movable wing, it's the uncertainty of how it will be used in practice, how likely is it that they'll get the timing of it all right from the start? The excitement of a given component comes from having a driver figure out how to use it to best suit his driving style, his car and his capabilities... so I would have preferred it to be less restrictive or have it's use so dictated.

[Hansy]

And, in the end, if it works exactly how everyone wants it to, I for one, will consider a pass, made possible by some 3rd party (not the car or the driver) as crap and not worthy of any praise.

I'm not sure what you mean by this. How is a movable rear wing different than a movable front wing, or an f-duct or KERS, what is the car if not every component on it?

My biggest fear in all of this is not the movable wing, it's the uncertainty of how it will be used in practice, how likely is it that they'll get the timing of it all right from the start? The excitement of a given component comes from having a driver figure out how to use it to best suit his driving style, his car and his capabilities... so I would have preferred it to be less restrictive or have it's use so dictated.

The problem isn't the movable wing. It's that the driver behind can move his wing and the driver in front can't. If they try to overtake with KERS, or F-Duct or whatever, the other driver can use the same tools to fight back. I like overtaking, but not like this, this is forced and manufactured. It's not racing.

[texasmr2]

I see what your saying Hansy, rather rediculous imho that the driver in front cannot use whatever is at his disposal to defend, then we would see better battles and racing I believe. The first race of the new season should be a doozy!

[Fred_C_Dobbs]

In match sprint bicycle racing, deliberately lagging behind your opponent and "slingshotting" out of his draft at the last possible moment is such an indomitable technique, riders practise coming to a complete stop on the velodrome's banked track, a manoeuver known as a "track stand." The point is that if your opponent cannot remain balanced and stationary as long as you, or if you can catch him unawares and unprepared to counter with a trackstand of his own, you will force him to take the lead. Between riders of relatively matched sprinting prowess, the rider who trails in the closing metres of the race has a considerable advantage.

NASCAR racing cars have been aerodynamically tuned to remain stable in a very tight draft. And certain NASCAR drivers are specialised at exploiting the draft by timing their slingshot to just nip their opponent by bare inches at the checquered flag. Some very prominent drivers -- like Richard Petty -- made a habit of biding their time in second place until the final lunge to the finishing line.

If this adjustable rear wing is truly effective, I can foresee exactly the same tactic evolving in F1. There will be no incentive to lead the race until exiting its final corner unless your car is so fast you know you can remain clear of second place by greater that whatever the FIA have decided the interval should be that week.

Another point that has not been addressed is what happens to the car's balance when the rear wing goes flat. Oversteer at that point will be horrendous. The more effective the adjustable wing, the more horrendous it will be. If I understand the new rules, the wing's return to its high downforce position will occur automatically at some point during or immediately following the moment of overtaking. Since this moment likely will occur either in the braking zone or the entrance to the corner, the cars could prove quite the handful to control when transitioning from oversteer back to normal. It could prove rather entertaining to watch.

[Jabberwocky]

I just assumed it would return to normal as soon as the brake was pressed.

[scotty]

I wouldn't be surprised to see an incident in the vein of Vettel's at Spa this season...

[JackMaster]

I hope that it works. I’m really praising for it working, especially for avoiding all those races that are cars convoys from start to end.
They can’t allow the car in front to use it at the same time because in that case the adjustable rear wing wouldn’t have any effect in allowing overtaking which is its main purpose.
When two cars are, more or less, equally fast we could see a real battle with them overtaking each other once and again.
Drivers will also push harder to arrive to less than a second of the car in front, because with this rule they will have a real opportunity to overtake. That will also make races more exciting.
I agree in some things that you are saying, but nothing is perfect and I believe this rule deserves an opportunity to demonstrate if it’s effective.

[Fred_C_Dobbs]

I just assumed it would return to normal as soon as the brake was pressed.

You could be right. Nonetheless, one normally presses the brake in the braking zone, eh wot? The point is the car will be undergoing a dramatic change in balance while the driver either is applying braking or steering input. Either will tend to unsettle the chassis. Throwing in a simultaneous radical change in grip could make for excellent highlight reel footage.

I wouldn't be surprised to see an incident in the vein of Vettel's at Spa this season...

My thoughts exactly. We could see many. I could be a very good time to be in the front wing sales business.

[spankyham]

Fred's got it pretty right. I think his 2 examples are spot on. The bicycle race when they come to halt and the Nascar drafting, both show when you are paid such a huge reward for being behind, that's where most drivers will want to be.

The rule is wrong because it rewards the guy behind and punishes the guy who worked to get in front.

If Fernando passes Lewis on the straight using this 3rd party intervention - how many fans from either side will say "gee that was a great/skillful/deserved pass?" Not me, that's for sure.

Why not let the race stewards reduce the revs on a car less than 1 second in front?
Why not let the race stewards allow an extra set of brake pads to work on a following car into a certain corner?
Why even bother with this ridiculous sham and just let the race stewards radio a driver and tell him has to let the guy behind pass?

And lets fix a few other sports while we're at it, let's lower the basketball hoop by 12 inches and double the width and height of soccer goals.

[What's Burning?]

I'm not arguing the wing, I'm arguing that it's use should not be limited, let the drivers exploit it as it suits them, otherwise it's just a pointless manufactured gimmick.

[Jabberwocky]

I'm not arguing the wing, I'm arguing that it's use should not be limited, let the drivers exploit it as it suits them, otherwise it's just a pointless manufactured gimmick.

so everyone uses it at the same time, which will make it pointless if car 1 and car 2 use it!

[Robert12010]

I'm not arguing the wing, I'm arguing that it's use should not be limited, let the drivers exploit it as it suits them, otherwise it's just a pointless manufactured gimmick.

so everyone uses it at the same time, which will make it pointless if car 1 and car 2 use it!

[nish2280]

Why is it harder to overtake with the wing down?

The rear wing is in a "steep" or as you've called it "down" position when its something like this (from China 2010):-


The rear wing is in a "flat" or "up" position when its something like this (from Monza 2010):-


The new rule will allow a rear wing that looks like the first picture "down" change to perform like the 2nd one "up".

When a wing is "down" it provides more downforce by creating better friction between the car and road (the wing and the other aeros are pushing the car onto the road very hard. This is useful going around corners but no so useful in a straight line because the additional friction reduces the top speed.

Dont worry, i have a basic understanding of physics . My question was that why is it harder to overtake with the wing in the low downforce setting which is what FRAFDPP was saying.

I was referring to down as low downforce setting.

[Hammer278]

Question..can the wing be used at the start of the race? Which means everyone who's not on pole can stall the rear wing as they are all within a second of each other?

Apologies if this is a known fact...I've been away from my F1 desk lately.