FORUMula1.com - F1 Forum

[texasmr2]

So anyway I think and hope the new regs will appease and if not the off season of 2013 will not even resemble this off season.

[myownalias]

...Mercedes actually make cars with four cylinder engines and as people move towards economical cars rather than gas guzzling V8/10/12s, that's more likely to be their core business in the coming years. Ferrari is the only manufacturer that has a vested interest in V6/8/10/12 engines in Formula 1....

I'm quite sure that any second now Mercedes will shut down the Maybach factory to switch from building blown 6-litre, 600 bhp V-12s and begin producing Smart Cars.

The best selling automobile on earth, BTW, is still the Ford F-150 pickup truck, most of which are sold equipped with a 5-litre V-8.

I never suggested that Mercedes would stop making V8/10/12 cars, I merely pointed out that many mass production manufacturers including Mercedes are making much more efficient L4s and V6s, engine technology has moved on enough to be able to get the same power output from a L4 as you could a V8 ten to fifteen years ago, you just have to look at Subaru; they are producing 300bhp cars from an L4 engine block, an average American big block V8 will produce less than 300bhp!

[What's Burning?]

The best selling automobile on earth, BTW, is still the Ford F-150 pickup truck, most of which are sold equipped with a 5-litre V-8.

And that's why there's a NASCAR truck series.

I doubt there's any member of this site that didn't love the V10s V12s of yesteryear, we love the sound,the power the... everything, ok, so we're on the same page. The compelling reason though is that now F1 can introduce some semblance of "green" whether it's genuine or simply a means to increase their advertising potential... a kindred with the common man street tuner or increase the relevance of the R&D budget to more manufacturer making the sport more attractive... F1 is the pinacle of motorsport engineering, if they can squeeze the performance out of a Turbo L4, why not? People will amaze at the power F1 engineers can get from "an engine just like the one in my car"

Mercedes is not in business to make Maybachs, they probably make 100 fold of what they earn with that division by making delivery trucks. VAG loses money with every Veyron yet they still made them. Ferrari will continue making V10s and V12s, they're not going to go away, so everyone keep your shirts on.

I'm ok with whatever happens, but It's my opinion that we'll see the sport grow because of the new reqs.

[darwin dali]

so everyone keep your shirts on.

You're SUCH a killjoy

[spankyham]

Tony Fernandes of Team Lotus is quoted here as saying that the new engines are great news. He also reckons it makes F1 relevant to the environment and relevant because everyone has a 1.6 engine.

Relevant to the Environment:-
I've read some ridiculous stuff, but, if some Spanish and British press are biased sometimes, that stupidity is completely blitzed by how stupid any statement claiming F1-2013 is green. Lets be clear, F1 isn't green now, and, F1 with the new KERS engines will be far less resource efficient.

Even after you put on the table how bad the new engine is itself, look at the other pure energy wastage of F1 - could someone tell me how many gazilawatts are used lighting up a small country for three nights? Could someone give us again the fuel used to fly the F1 circus around the world. You want to go greener than we are now, put back the old v10/12 and cut out the night races and put more races in Europe (where people actually turn up to watch). That will save quadtillions more resources than the pissy 4 pot 12K F1-family car engines.

F1-family car is relevant:-
I can't believe how many people swallow this garbage. Lets get a few facts on the table. One of the "relevance" claims is that engine is somehow similar to the family cars we drive. Read that last line one more time and tell me you're not laughing. Does anyone for a moment believe that however many pots the new F1 engine will have that it will bear any resemblance to their family car? Not even a GP3 engine (4 pot) is in anyway like a family car. The similarities begin and end with they are internal combustion engines.

Another fact - we are going to make a new F1 engine, that is less "green" than the current one, produces less power and will have no similarity to family car engines. Big question is why, answer is obvious really. Nothing to do with green or family car like, the answer is why Fernandes is all excited about it. Because it's cheap and easy. F1 started down the road of becoming mediocre when it wanted to become easy for "mom and pop" teams to enter. No more need to prove yourself in the feeder classes. No need to prove you have the resources to become a leading edge superlative team.

So this engine change is for one reason and one reason only - take us away from leading edge because that is expensive, and, quite frankly the other wanna-be's lining up know they can't compete with the big-boys as it stands now. Make F1 like GP2 or GP3 because we can have hundreds of teams all dragged down to the current back runners level.

[JackMaster]

Fuel reduction is good if the engineering advances achieved in F1 have an application in the new brand vehicles massively built and sold by the big manufacturers. In that case, the green factor produced by the change of rules could be huge. In my opinion this is the only valid explanation for calling green the change of rules proposed for 2013 in F1. And that is , more or less, what Tony Fernandes is saying.

[bud]

I would like F1 to move away from Fossil Fuels altogether and help produce and advance other methods that are out there as we speak. Oil reserves will not last forever.

[darwin dali]

I would like F1 to move away from Fossil Fuels altogether and help produce and advance other methods that are out there as we speak. Oil reserves will not last forever.

+1 as long as it's not just EtOH because that would mean to simply shift the environmental problems.

[spankyham]

I would like F1 to move away from Fossil Fuels altogether and help produce and advance other methods that are out there as we speak. Oil reserves will not last forever.

A great reason why 2013 engine (dependent on KERS) is stupid! Why move to something rarer than oil?

[darwin dali]

I would like F1 to move away from Fossil Fuels altogether and help produce and advance other methods that are out there as we speak. Oil reserves will not last forever.

A great reason why 2013 engine (dependent on KERS) is stupid! Why move to something rarer than oil?

H2 is the most abundant element in the universe and is well represented on the surface of the earth, too.

[spankyham]

I would like F1 to move away from Fossil Fuels altogether and help produce and advance other methods that are out there as we speak. Oil reserves will not last forever.

A great reason why 2013 engine (dependent on KERS) is stupid! Why move to something rarer than oil?

H2 is the most abundant element in the universe and is well represented on the surface of the earth, too.

I have absolutely no idea what the abundance of hydrogen has to do with my comment - enlighten please?

[darwin dali]

I would like F1 to move away from Fossil Fuels altogether and help produce and advance other methods that are out there as we speak. Oil reserves will not last forever.

A great reason why 2013 engine (dependent on KERS) is stupid! Why move to something rarer than oil?

H2 is the most abundant element in the universe and is well represented on the surface of the earth, too.

I have absolutely no idea what the abundance of hydrogen has to do with my comment - enlighten please?

Bud is talking about non-fossil fuels like H2. And you answer with the question why move to something rarer than oil? (not sure how you got to that conclusion from KERS) - anyway, H2 is much more abundant than your increasingly rare oil.

[bud]

hydrogen is the most abundant element in the universe isn't it?

[darwin dali]

hydrogen is the most abundant element in the universe isn't it?

I just stated that above, honey

[spankyham]

I would like F1 to move away from Fossil Fuels altogether and help produce and advance other methods that are out there as we speak. Oil reserves will not last forever.

A great reason why 2013 engine (dependent on KERS) is stupid! Why move to something rarer than oil?

H2 is the most abundant element in the universe and is well represented on the surface of the earth, too.

I have absolutely no idea what the abundance of hydrogen has to do with my comment - enlighten please?

Bud is talking about non-fossil fuels like H2. And you answer with the question why move to something rarer than oil? (not sure how you got to that conclusion from KERS) - anyway, H2 is much more abundant than your increasingly rare oil.

KERS batteries use rare earths, which are about as rare as rocking horse poo. They are also only commercially available from PR China, basically mined by labour that gets paid less than slaves and who's working conditions would be improved if they were sent to an 18th century coal mine.