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[What's Burning?]

Hmm... interesting, I had posted it previously here but I guess it was made private later. Anyway, "Bobby" managed to do 96 Mph on the salt flats.

[darwin dali]

Hmm... interesting, I had posted it previously here but I guess it was made private later. Anyway, "Bobby" managed to do 96 Mph on the salt flats.

Yup, half way there then

[myownalias]

A bit silly really mate, I don't think any of the actual F1 engines go into any road car - if we were measuring by that standard there be no-one racing in F1 today.

No, but LDM said himself, they are not going to put a 4 cylinder engine in a Ferrari, but they do commonly use V8 engines, hence why F1 is currently relevant to their road cars!

This is about F1 trying to be driven by the mediocrity of the mass produced production cars and a false sense of being somehow "green". LDM is saying that he thinks that F1 should be about superlatives and leading edge. Not a 4 cylinder donk that the better brains on this forum could probably get close to putting together in a garage over a few weekends with a basic turbo engine and parts from local auto-shops.

Why can't F1 be about about superlatives and leading edge with four cylinder engines? With the engineering talent in F1; 850bhp from a 1.6 L4 Turbo engine is entirely possible, the FIA is probably going to restrict power output anyway so regardless of engine capacity, the power output will be limited, this is Ferrari worried about their business model, nothing more, nothing less. LDM is hoping that Mercedes and maybe Renault (should they remain a engine supplier in 2013) will side with them and refuse to manufacture a L4 Turbo engine, Ferrari is the only one that don't make family vehicles that tend to be L4s as they are the most cost effective and economical!

Well you never know. Mercedes currently put a massive 6.3L V8 in their SLS and other sports cars, i really doubt they are going to turn around one day and say we are cutting the engine size in half for our sports cars.

Ferrari surely wouldnt do it, i mean what kind of arab billionaire is going to want a tiny 4 cylinder engine when he can go to the competition and buy a thumping V8!

Of all of Mercedes car sales, what percentage of their total sales are the V8 powered cars? A few Sheiks buying a couple of V8 Mercedes makes very little difference to their real world car sales and survivability in the car market. People who buy a Ferrari are looking specifically for a Ferrari, a Mercedes buyer has lots of other options, most people don't need 600bhp in their road car, especially when you consider the fuel prices in Europe!

[spankyham]

No, but LDM said himself, they are not going to put a 4 cylinder engine in a Ferrari, but they do commonly use V8 engines, hence why F1 is currently relevant to their road cars!

As I said, none of the F1 engines are used in road cars. Ferrari's made turbo F1 engines in the past. FIAT are going into 4 pot turbos in a big way and this technology may well become the basic turbo for the masses for Chrysler as well. So, it is genuinely silly to say it's not part of Ferrari/FIAT's business. As I said before, this is about mediocrity/green-ness taking over F1 (or at least trying to).

Why can't F1 be about about superlatives and leading edge with four cylinder engines?

Well it could, but you tell me what's superlative about a 4 pot turbo limited to 12K revs and producing just over 600HP - even you must see what a joke that is?

Ferrari is the only one that don't make family vehicles that tend to be L4s as they are the most cost effective and economical!

There, you've said it yourself, F1 to be driven by 4 pot economical family vehicles. How's that for an oxymoron "F1-family vehicle" I reckon that's better than "smart bomb".

Lets look a little into the future F1 driven by "economical family vehicle manufacturers"
Lewis straps in the kids as he indicates before taking the MP4-1/29 out for Q3 session.
Fernando winding the window up on the F2015 as he turns the radio on and showcases the velour seat covers before he opens the glove-box to get his calculator out so show how much per month the repayments will be on next years model.
Sebastian stuns both of the crowd, and all three of those watching on TV, with an awesome lap that is completed using only one AAA battery and less than a micron of rubber.

[myownalias]

As I said, none of the F1 engines are used in road cars. Ferrari's made turbo F1 engines in the past. FIAT are going into 4 pot turbos in a big way and this technology may well become the basic turbo for the masses for Chrysler as well. So, it is genuinely silly to say it's not part of Ferrari/FIAT's business. As I said before, this is about mediocrity/green-ness taking over F1 (or at least trying to).

We are talking about Ferrari; FIAT are just the parent company, how many average F1 viewers actually see the FIAT logo on the side of the Ferrari? How many people actually associate Ferrari with FIAT? The FIAT 500 and has no similarities to a Ferrari California for example; unless you include the use of an internal combustion engine!

Well it could, but you tell me what's superlative about a 4 pot turbo limited to 12K revs and producing just over 600HP - even you must see what a joke that is?

A bigger engine does not mean better racing or less innovation, it's much easier to get 800hp from a V8 than it is from L4 turbo, F1 can still be the pinnacle of motorsport by championing new technologies that are truly relevant to road vehicles that the general public will buy!

There, you've said it yourself, F1 to be driven by 4 pot economical family vehicles. How's that for an oxymoron "F1-family vehicle" I reckon that's better than "smart bomb".

Lets look a little into the future F1 driven by "economical family vehicle manufacturers"
Lewis straps in the kids as he indicates before taking the MP4-1/29 out for Q3 session.
Fernando winding the window up on the F2015 as he turns the radio on and showcases the velour seat covers before he opens the glove-box to get his calculator out so show how much per month the repayments will be on next years model.
Sebastian stuns both of the crowd, and all three of those watching on TV, with an awesome lap that is completed using only one AAA battery and less than a micron of rubber.

Now you're taking it to the extreme; if you really believe that having 1.6L turbo engines will ruin the sport and make it a laughing stock then that's your prerogative and I can't change your opinion on that, we'll have to agree with disagree as it#s blatantly obvious we can not agree on the subject!

[What's Burning?]

I heard that the Ferrai F11 will be sporting a Chrysler logo this year.

[spankyham]

we'll have to agree with disagree as it#s blatantly obvious we can not agree on the subject!

Fair enough matey - we got our points out there and the world is now a better place for our pearls of wisdom

But one thing though, the BBC report covering the new regs made it clear that the new engine isn't the 800HP turbo you keep referring to. Its ~750HP including the 120 from KERS for the few seconds a lap that lasts. Meaning, we will be watching 600HP F1 cars for 90+% of the season (that's just a little less than the current GP2's, but pretty darn powerful for an F1-family car)

[darwin dali]

I heard that the Ferrai F11 will be sporting a Chrysler logo this year.

Oooh, that's nasty!

[myownalias]

we'll have to agree with disagree as it#s blatantly obvious we can not agree on the subject!

Fair enough matey - we got our points out there and the world is now a better place for our pearls of wisdom

But one thing though, the BBC report covering the new regs made it clear that the new engine isn't the 800HP turbo you keep referring to. Its ~750HP including the 120 from KERS for the few seconds a lap that lasts. Meaning, we will be watching 600HP F1 cars for 90+% of the season (that's just a little less than the current GP2's, but pretty darn powerful for an F1-family car)

I wasn't necessarily referring to the power it will have (limited by FIA regs), but more to the possibilities of what could be achieved easily with a L4 turbo! Despite the limitations on engine power, I bet that somehow the aerodynamacists and engineers will come up with a way to make the cars just as fast as they are now!

[f1usa]

Well you never know. Mercedes currently put a massive 6.3L V8 in their SLS and other sports cars, i really doubt they are going to turn around one day and say we are cutting the engine size in half for our sports cars.

Ferrari surely wouldnt do it, i mean what kind of arab billionaire is going to want a tiny 4 cylinder engine when he can go to the competition and buy a thumping V8!

With KERS coming back, has the FIA ever thought of using 5-15% ethanol in gas to pacify treehuggers instead of lopping off 4 cylinders. Such small amount of gas/ethanol blend would not anger the oil campanies, as they sell it already.

[Robert12010]

sadly it probably wont happen again but i want to see the big v10's back,! LOTS OF NOISE, LOTS OF POWER, LOTS OF FUN!

[Fred_C_Dobbs]

...has the FIA ever thought of using 5-15% ethanol in gas to pacify treehuggers instead of lopping off 4 cylinders....

Yes and no.

2011 TR 19.4.4: A minimum of 5.75% (m/m) of the fuel must comprise bio-components.

But they're lopping off the four cylinders anyway. The treehuggers will not be sated unless and until the only means of transportation available is hand-woven hemp sandals.

[darwin dali]

...has the FIA ever thought of using 5-15% ethanol in gas to pacify treehuggers instead of lopping off 4 cylinders....

Yes and no.

2011 TR 19.4.4: A minimum of 5.75% (m/m) of the fuel must comprise bio-components.

But they're lopping off the four cylinders anyway. The treehuggers will not be sated unless and until the only means of transportation available is hand-woven hemp sandals.

And then we smoke them after arrival

[Jensonb]

I'm throwing this out there:

Let them make a Hydrogen Fuel Cell F1 Car.

Let it be done.

Then watch the car manufacturers squirm as we expose them for their unwillingness to actually develop HFC.

[Fred_C_Dobbs]

I'm throwing this out there:

Let them make a Hydrogen Fuel Cell F1 Car.

Let it be done.

Then watch the car manufacturers squirm as we expose them for their unwillingness to actually develop HFC.

Here, here, well spoken Bruce!

Hang the environment, the buying public will not abandon fossil fuels until someone has an alternative that will not materially affect either their lifestyle or their purse. I think HFCs could fill that bill but as yet there is too scanty a retail distribution system. You can't blame the car builders for not building cars the customer can't yet get fuel for.

Once the public gets a taste of the HFC-powered autos, you can look for demand to steadily increase. Once the public gets a taste of hybrids and electric cars, you can look for the opposite.

...Mercedes actually make cars with four cylinder engines and as people move towards economical cars rather than gas guzzling V8/10/12s, that's more likely to be their core business in the coming years. Ferrari is the only manufacturer that has a vested interest in V6/8/10/12 engines in Formula 1....

I'm quite sure that any second now Mercedes will shut down the Maybach factory to switch from building blown 6-litre, 600 bhp V-12s and begin producing Smart Cars.

The best selling automobile on earth, BTW, is still the Ford F-150 pickup truck, most of which are sold equipped with a 5-litre V-8.

How about a 1.6 L 12 cylinder... this way everyone is happy? Sheesh.

In the 50s and 60s, BRM campaigned a 1.5-litre supercharged 4V H-16. Is that close enough?