FORUMula1.com - F1 Forum

[Hexagram]

Fernando Alonso is confident that Formula 1's rule-makers have hit upon the solution to the sport's lack of overtaking with the arrival of moveable wings and the return of Kinetic Energy Recovery Systems (KERS) next year.

The wing device will allow drivers to activate an F-duct-style drag-reduction system when within a prescribed distance behind a car ahead, giving the chasing driver a straightline speed advantage over their opponent - who will not be able to trigger their own wing device in defence. In parallel with this new initiative, the power-boosting KERS will be reintroduced after a one-year absence.

Previous attempts to improve the racing in F1, such as 2009's aerodynamic changes, have not proved particularly successful, but double world champion Alonso thinks the new rules package will succeed.

"Obviously every year normally Formula 1 changes rules to make it more spectacular, to have more overtaking manoeuvres and to have a better show," said Alonso in an interview provided by the Ferrari press office.

"It's true that in 2011 there are two big changes to the regulations, which is the KERS and the rear wing that we can move when we have an overtaking possibility. I think these two combined give us a speed advantage that is quite big compared to the car in front.

"So I'm confident that next year, finally, the rules will help overtaking and we will have a better show for everybody."

He added that the combination of KERS, the wing system and the change to Pirelli tyres would pose a major challenge for teams' designers as they tried to ensure their 2011 cars got the maximum out of all three.

"One of the most important is the tyres, which normally change the behaviour of the car, so we have to make sure that Pirelli is well coordinated with our car," said Alonso.

"Then we have the KERS, which comes back from 2009, and in 2011 will be a very important tool for overtaking and also for performance. We need to find a way of preparing the car to use the KERS in the best way possible.

"Then there is the moveable rear wing, that will try to make a better show, but also is a new area to experiment and exploit for performance."

This all sounds good. I wasn't aware that the driver defending can't respond straight away with adjusting his rear wing.

In theory we should have a s*** load of overtaking next year.

[FRAFPDD]

I too think the FIA might be on to a winner here,
even if they arent whats the worst that could happen? that theres as much overtaking as there is in 2010, so no negative change.

Of course some will always claim its to artificial, which is entirely valid, but its not fair that the aerodynamics of a car ruins it to the one behind that cant overtake purely cause of dirty air, everyone has use of the adjustable rear wing and everyone has the use of KERS, so its not like if your overtaken by someone using either, you dont have the chance to fight back with it.

Oh yeah that reminds me, the rule is that when your a second behind a car or less you use the adjustablerear wing, well whats the rules with the car just being overtaken, in theory they should then be about a second or less behind and be able to use theirs too, we may just have too MUCH overtaking

The only downsides i can think of are these: It does seem a little too artificial, the air flow change when your adjusting your rear wing in a slipstream may send the car careering off the track when you pull out of it, and lastly, i dont want to any team win just because they have the best KERS system, or in turn some sort of uniqie rear wing that gives them an unfair advantage, unless of course the its entirely legal and totally innovative. But then you could say that about the KERS lol.

[Robert12010]

lets hope the changes work! but like previously mentioned in the thread, you dont want artifical overtaking!

[madbrad]

So it must need some kind of sonar or something to tell how close the car ahead is and tell some computer either on board or at the pit wall to allow the wing change. What happened to controlling expense and complexity? Then once the pass is made, the roles are reversed. And another pass. No net change.
I also don't like the allowing of KERS(I have no issue with the KERS itself) because the poor teams won't have it. What happened to levelling the playing field?

[f1ea]

So it must need some kind of sonar or something to tell how close the car ahead is and tell some computer either on board or at the pit wall to allow the wing change.

How about a GPS system?

What happened to controlling expense and complexity? Then once the pass is made, the roles are reversed. And another pass. No net change.

Until one of them crashes

[myownalias]

I have said many times, we don't need moveable wings or KERS, what we need is wider and lower cars, wider tyres, and less aero reliance + more freedom in design, basically take a step back in time, there never used to be a problem with overtaking, the problem was created by the hundreds of changes in enforced car design as dictated by the FIA that created the problem in the first place! Technology is not always the answer to the problem but again the FIA can't see it!

[stonemonkey]

I have said many times, we don't need moveable wings or KERS, what we need is wider and lower cars, wider tyres, and less aero reliance + more freedom in design, basically take a step back in time, there never used to be a problem with overtaking, the problem was created by the hundreds of changes in enforced car design as dictated by the FIA that created the problem in the first place! Technology is not always the answer to the problem but again the FIA can't see it!

Yeah, I'd like to see that too although I have no problem with KERS.

[texasmr2]

I have said many times, we don't need moveable wings or KERS, what we need is wider and lower cars, wider tyres, and less aero reliance + more freedom in design, basically take a step back in time, there never used to be a problem with overtaking, the problem was created by the hundreds of changes in enforced car design as dictated by the FIA that created the problem in the first place! Technology is not always the answer to the problem but again the FIA can't see it!

[myownalias]

I have said many times, we don't need moveable wings or KERS, what we need is wider and lower cars, wider tyres, and less aero reliance + more freedom in design, basically take a step back in time, there never used to be a problem with overtaking, the problem was created by the hundreds of changes in enforced car design as dictated by the FIA that created the problem in the first place! Technology is not always the answer to the problem but again the FIA can't see it!

Yeah, I'd like to see that too although I have no problem with KERS.

The issue I have with KERS is that both attacking and defending drivers can use it at the same time which cancels each other out! Back in the day, the method of overtaking was slipstreaming which can not be countered without some special defensive driving, slipstreaming isn't possible today because the air is so disrupted because of the numerous aero devices implemented in the modern F1 car so as soon as a driver comes up a similarly competitive car, overtaking disappears.

[The Oz]

lets hope the changes for 2011 are better than the ones for 2010!

[Hexagram]

I have said many times, we don't need moveable wings or KERS, what we need is wider and lower cars, wider tyres, and less aero reliance + more freedom in design, basically take a step back in time, there never used to be a problem with overtaking, the problem was created by the hundreds of changes in enforced car design as dictated by the FIA that created the problem in the first place! Technology is not always the answer to the problem but again the FIA can't see it!

Yeah, I'd like to see that too although I have no problem with KERS.

The issue I have with KERS is that both attacking and defending drivers can use it at the same time which cancels each other out! Back in the day, the method of overtaking was slipstreaming which can not be countered without some special defensive driving, slipstreaming isn't possible today because the air is so disrupted because of the numerous aero devices implemented in the modern F1 car so as soon as a driver comes up a similarly competitive car, overtaking disappears.

It's pretty clear you want F1 regs to restrict aero design so much that we get f1 cars that give a clean slip.

Car designs like this, with clean lines.


Rather than this.


The FIA tried to do this but look at the F60. It was still way too complex to give off a clean slip.


To pull off what you are talking about would require teams to pretty much scrap creativity in the wind tunnels and do away with CFD systems and for the FIA to produce some insanely strict regs on aero development.

Personally I love the small complexities that teams add to cars to get better aero performance from them and the way the cars evolve over a season.

Look at the McLaren at the start of the 2009 season:


And then at the end of the season:


It's insane when you look closely at all the small aero changes and how the car went from no where to winning races over the course of a season.

Basically I'm all for this new rear wing system and the fact that KERS is coming back in a standard form. Drivers who are faster and cleverly use their KERS boost with less rear wing drag will get past a slower driver.

If the driver they overtake is actually not that slow and has decent pace he should be able to strike back.

So if Webber got Vettel with this system in, let's say Brazil. Vettel should be able to strike back. But if Alonso got Petrov in Abu Dhabi we know that Petrov would not have been able to get back past.

It should produce this sort of racing again but maintain the aero brilliance we see on modern F1 cars.

[youtube]zznJjSncGCE[/youtube]

[texasmr2]

Formula 3 style .
[youtube]zznJjSncGCE[/youtube]

[myownalias]

Yes I do want Aero to be restricted and use of mechanical grip more widespread! I make no bones about that, but I also want more technical creativity in the engine department and mechanical grip. Having teams come up with endless aero to make their car go faster does not make for good racing as similar powered cars can never follow close enough behind to take advantage of the slipstream effect, the KERS system and moveable rear wing are technical solutions to a problem that didn't exist 10 years ago!

[texasmr2]

Yes I do want Aero to be restricted and use of mechanical grip more widespread! I make no bones about that, but I also want more technical creativity in the engine department and mechanical grip. Having teams come up with endless aero to make their car go faster does not make for good racing as similar powered cars can never follow close enough behind to take advantage of the slipstream effect, the KERS system and moveable rear wing are technical solutions to a problem that didn't exist 10 years ago!

Thats what I meant to say but your wording is more comprehensible .

[smokin]

So it must need some kind of sonar or something to tell how close the car ahead is and tell some computer either on board or at the pit wall to allow the wing change. What happened to controlling expense and complexity? Then once the pass is made, the roles are reversed. And another pass. No net change.
I also don't like the allowing of KERS(I have no issue with the KERS itself) because the poor teams won't have it. What happened to levelling the playing field?

I don't think that we will see cars constantly swapping places. We often see cars rapidly catching slower cars only to be unable to pass. If the adjustable wing solves this problem then we won't have the Petrov/Alonso situation again, which was undoubtedly enjoyable for the Ferrari haters but wasn't racing.

I agree with you on the KERS inequality, though.