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[spankyham]

I'd much rather see one more Ferrari, McLaren, Merc and perhaps another Red Bull than any of the new teams from last year.

In this article LDM has suggested how private teams such as Penske or Ganassi could run a 3rd Ferrari, and be competitive.

For me it's a much better way to go. Proven teams, who understand how to succeed. Cars that can compete and win, and drivers get cars and teams that don't mean that have to circulate 5 seconds a lap slower.



F1 : Ferrari names Ganassi and Penske as ideal third Formula 1 car partners
Thursday, 16 December 2010 08:16

Luca di Montezemolo has named two famous American motor racing names as ideal partners to run a third Ferrari car in Formula One.

The Maranello based marque's President is a regular critic of Formula 1's struggling smallest constructors, arguing this week that it's "better to have a third (Ferrari) car with a competitive team than a team that cannot even do GP2".

"I think it's common sense and Bernie Ecclestone agrees. Who (would run the third Ferrari)? A small but competitive team," he told Italian reporters.

The Italian magazine Autosprint has now given more details about Montezemolo's plan, revealing that Ferrari wants its third car up and running in 2013.

Team boss Stefano Domenicali is currently on his way to London for a meeting of the Formula 1 teams association FOTA.

"The teams and the FIA are currently discussing the possibility (of three cars) in three years," said the report.

Montezemolo confirmed: "It would be nice to see a third Ferrari fielded perhaps by a private American team. I'm thinking of a team like Ganassi or Penske (being suitable)."

"On the question of a third car, we are determined," he added.

"If a team does not have the money to be in Formula One, they can go to GP2," Montezemolo is quoted by the Italian press.

"It is disheartening to see someone like Trulli many seconds behind. Think what Jarno could do with a Ferrari given to his team."

Italian Trulli currently drives for the Tony Fernandes run Team Lotus, which finished its debut season in 2010 the highest placed of the three new teams.

Previously, some teams, notably Williams, were opposed to Ferrari's proposition about allowing third cars in Formula 1.

Montezemolo continued: "Ecclestone agrees and (Frank) Williams, who was against it before, understands now."

"Don't you think it would be nice to see a team like Penske or Ganassi deploy a Ferrari with an American driver?" he asked rhetorically.

[What's Burning?]

While I don't have a valid reason to be against this, I don't see a compelling reason to be for it either.

This request from Ferrari has more to do with their desire to recoup some of their financial investment in F1 than for their desire to see an American racing team with an American driver on the grid. I'm sure Ferrari don't like being where they are given the very recent article we just read about who is getting the most return on their investment.

[bud]

penske have had a long association with McLaren so I dont know how well that would work but I understand what he is saying. but then this sounds more like a customer car doesnt it?

[Robert12010]

i would rather see it left the way it is! 2 cars per team, yeah ok hrt arent exactly going to get you excited but 3 cars is just going a bit far id say !

[billindenver]

I would rather see steps taken to help the new teams catch up. Give them testing days to increase their knowledge. Let them wave the mandatory tire change. Wave their parc ferme requirements. Allow them extra practice time....

There is no reason why the new teams can't be helped to catch up.

[vaptin]

penske have had a long association with McLaren so I dont know how well that would work but I understand what he is saying. but then this sounds more like a customer car doesnt it?

Yeah, doesn't sound too bad thinking about it that way, sort of like customer engines but scaled up. Would help competitiveness and should be fairly cost efficient for the customer team I think? Would this really be too different from the situation with Torro Rosso and redbull?

But I don't really want this at the expense of new teams, we should still encourage new independent teams.

[What's Burning?]

I would rather see steps taken to help the new teams catch up. Give them testing days to increase their knowledge. Let them wave the mandatory tire change. Wave their parc ferme requirements. Allow them extra practice time....

There is no reason why the new teams can't be helped to catch up.

This is the obvious solution, and it's inexplicable why it isn't being done. The expectation that you're not fit to race in F1 unless you can be competitive from the get go is ridiculous. If Penske or Ganassi got into F1 They'd be 3 or 4 seconds back their first year as well. Ferrari wants to sell F1 cars to subsidize their program.

[texasmr2]

I would rather see steps taken to help the new teams catch up. Give them testing days to increase their knowledge. Let them wave the mandatory tire change. Wave their parc ferme requirements. Allow them extra practice time....

There is no reason why the new teams can't be helped to catch up.

Nail on head so too speak .

This is the obvious solution, and it's inexplicable why it isn't being done. The expectation that you're not fit to race in F1 unless you can be competitive from the get go is ridiculous. If Penske or Ganassi got into F1 They'd be 3 or 4 seconds back their first year as well. Ferrari wants to sell F1 cars to subsidize their program.

[spankyham]

I would rather see steps taken to help the new teams catch up. Give them testing days to increase their knowledge. Let them wave the mandatory tire change. Wave their parc ferme requirements. Allow them extra practice time....

There is no reason why the new teams can't be helped to catch up.

For me, F1 is supposed to be for the best, the leading edge. And just like the elite armed forces or elite colleges, there is an entrance requirement. And, even for those that make it past the entrance requirements, if they don't perform, they are cut. If not, it becomes a competition for the mediocre.

No offense to any of the new teams, but they were clearly not of the caliber to make it at F1 level. None of them had a pedigree and none of them had done the hard yards to learn and prove their worthiness. Their performances and problems show that. Spoon feeding them to get them to another year of start-line appearances is not going to make them F1 teams, it will simply degrade F1.

Given the choice of watching one of those struggling cars or another Ferrari, McLaren or Merc operated by a privateer with pedigree, well, for me that's a no-brainer.

[texasmr2]

For me, F1 is supposed to be for the best, the leading edge. And just like the elite armed forces or elite colleges, there is an entrance requirement. And, even for those that make it past the entrance requirements, if they don't perform, they are cut. If not, it becomes a competition for the mediocre.

I do not disagree with 99% of this but with no testing allowed, as is given to those elite forces, the new teams really never had a chance with all the naysayers as to their performance this season. It was like jumping from pre-k into college for them yet we all wanted to see new teams on the grid right? I honestly do not think it is the teams themselves but as mentioned no pre-season testing that hindered their performance.

No offense to any of the new teams, but they were clearly not of the caliber to make it at F1 level. None of them had a pedigree and none of them had done the hard yards to learn and prove their worthiness. Their performances and problems show that. Spoon feeding them to get them to another year of start-line appearances is not going to make them F1 teams, it will simply degrade F1.

Once again I myself blame that on the no testing rule.

Given the choice of watching one of those struggling cars or another Ferrari, McLaren or Merc operated by a privateer with pedigree, well, for me that's a no-brainer.

Cannot disagree with that but we would still have a #1 driver. Would the 3 car team concept be exciting yes it would yet imo I doubt it will happen anytime soon BUT this is F1 where anything is possible.

[FRAFPDD]

Well what the Ferrari fans and somewhat but nowhere near as much red bull and mclaren fans miguht not realise through their ignorance and/or arrogance is that Ferrari in particular have loads, thats not some, that is LOADS more money then the others at their disposal, mclaren are the second biggest team but still have nowhere near Ferraris budget, the latter of which also receives special monetary priveledges by the FIA for some reason. Its easy for LDM to say better to have third ferrari, yeah cause using you money seems to be the only way of winning titles for you(testing etc)! New teams need to stop getting into F1 for the short term gain and stick with it, or would we rather have three new teams EVERY year, i dont, 6 wasted spaces. That said do i want a third Ferrari Mclaren or RB, *** off i do. Give the newbs a chance and stop changing the rules drastically every ******* year in order to give them a chance to develop a car instead of scrapping it and making a whole new one every year. Oh yeah and give THEM extra money for being new and poor, not the big teams. Sorry for the rant, wasnt aimed at Ferrari for any other reason that its LDM that is so vocal and of course how much they in particular push for this STUPID proposal.

Again dont reply if your gonna say im some sort of hater, mainly to save yourself from looking an idiot. Its just one of the worst ideas ive heard of, F1 is two cars, not a monopoly board. " And thats a Mclaren 1-12 in qualifying leaving the other 12 Ferraris on the back row"

On another note Lotus and Virgin seem to genuinely have the dosh to keep in F1 and i hope they do.

[texasmr2]

Well what the Ferrari fans and somewhat but nowhere near as much red bull and mclaren fans miguht not realise through their ignorance and/or arrogance is that Ferrari in particular have loads, thats not some, that is LOADS more money then the others at their disposal, mclaren are the second biggest team but still have nowhere near Ferraris budget, the latter of which also receives special monetary priveledges by the FIA for some reason. Its easy for LDM to say better to have third ferrari, yeah cause using you money seems to be the only way of winning titles for you(testing etc)! New teams need to stop getting into F1 for the short term gain and stick with it, or would we rather have three new teams EVERY year, i dont, 6 wasted spaces. That said do i want a third Ferrari Mclaren or RB, *** off i do. Give the newbs a chance and stop changing the rules drastically every ******* year in order to give them a chance to develop a car instead of scrapping it and making a whole new one every year. Oh yeah and give THEM extra money for being new and poor, not the big teams. Sorry for the rant, wasnt aimed at Ferrari for any other reason that its LDM that is so vocal and of course how much they in particular push for this STUPID proposal.

Again dont reply if your gonna say im some sort of hater, mainly to save yourself from looking an idiot. Its just one of the worst ideas ive heard of, F1 is two cars, not a monopoly board. " And thats a Mclaren 1-12 in qualifying leaving the other 12 Ferraris on the back row"

On another note Lotus and Virgin seem to genuinely have the dosh to keep in F1 and i hope they do.

F1er is that you???

[FRAFPDD]

Well what the Ferrari fans and somewhat but nowhere near as much red bull and mclaren fans miguht not realise through their ignorance and/or arrogance is that Ferrari in particular have loads, thats not some, that is LOADS more money then the others at their disposal, mclaren are the second biggest team but still have nowhere near Ferraris budget, the latter of which also receives special monetary priveledges by the FIA for some reason. Its easy for LDM to say better to have third ferrari, yeah cause using you money seems to be the only way of winning titles for you(testing etc)! New teams need to stop getting into F1 for the short term gain and stick with it, or would we rather have three new teams EVERY year, i dont, 6 wasted spaces. That said do i want a third Ferrari Mclaren or RB, *** off i do. Give the newbs a chance and stop changing the rules drastically every ******* year in order to give them a chance to develop a car instead of scrapping it and making a whole new one every year. Oh yeah and give THEM extra money for being new and poor, not the big teams. Sorry for the rant, wasnt aimed at Ferrari for any other reason that its LDM that is so vocal and of course how much they in particular push for this STUPID proposal.

Again dont reply if your gonna say im some sort of hater, mainly to save yourself from looking an idiot. Its just one of the worst ideas ive heard of, F1 is two cars, not a monopoly board. " And thats a Mclaren 1-12 in qualifying leaving the other 12 Ferraris on the back row"

On another note Lotus and Virgin seem to genuinely have the dosh to keep in F1 and i hope they do.

F1er is that you???

I thought it seemed a little crazy tbh once i re-read it, but no everything there is truth and if you dont like it, lump it.

[texasmr2]

Well what the Ferrari fans and somewhat but nowhere near as much red bull and mclaren fans miguht not realise through their ignorance and/or arrogance is that Ferrari in particular have loads, thats not some, that is LOADS more money then the others at their disposal, mclaren are the second biggest team but still have nowhere near Ferraris budget, the latter of which also receives special monetary priveledges by the FIA for some reason. Its easy for LDM to say better to have third ferrari, yeah cause using you money seems to be the only way of winning titles for you(testing etc)! New teams need to stop getting into F1 for the short term gain and stick with it, or would we rather have three new teams EVERY year, i dont, 6 wasted spaces. That said do i want a third Ferrari Mclaren or RB, *** off i do. Give the newbs a chance and stop changing the rules drastically every ******* year in order to give them a chance to develop a car instead of scrapping it and making a whole new one every year. Oh yeah and give THEM extra money for being new and poor, not the big teams. Sorry for the rant, wasnt aimed at Ferrari for any other reason that its LDM that is so vocal and of course how much they in particular push for this STUPID proposal.

Again dont reply if your gonna say im some sort of hater, mainly to save yourself from looking an idiot. Its just one of the worst ideas ive heard of, F1 is two cars, not a monopoly board. " And thats a Mclaren 1-12 in qualifying leaving the other 12 Ferraris on the back row"

On another note Lotus and Virgin seem to genuinely have the dosh to keep in F1 and i hope they do.

F1er is that you???

I thought it seemed a little crazy tbh once i re-read it, but no everything there is truth and if you dont like it, lump it.

Should the forum be renamed after you?

[scotty]

Ok, let me get something straight first off. What exactly are the points of this idea that would benefit the entire F1 and the sport as a whole? Because so far i've only got this weak argument about some new teams being a couple of seconds off the pace supposedly making a mockery of the sport, although those who are claiming this seem to ignore important circumstancial factors. There's this other thing about Ferraris and McLarens being preferable to say Toro Rosso and Sauber, but that is simply subjectivism and laughable if used as the basis of a strong argument.

So you drop some teams and have 8 teams running three cars, but inevitably one or two teams will still be at the back, your Saubers, Williamses and Force Indias. What happens then? They struggle to find sponsorship and because of the increased costs have to fold, making the field even smaller. So, the big teams push for four car teams, because there are no new teams coming in because no one really has 200 million spare just to get on the grid, let alone be competitive.

Of course, they are talking of essentially re-allowing customer cars now. Why the sudden u-turn? We had Prodrive wanting to basically do with McLaren what Ferrari are now looking to undertake with Penske or whoever, but that was dismissed as making a mockery of the solid midfield teams such as those i mentioned above who will design their own cars. This was only 2, maybe 3 years ago. Also, assuming someone will be able to run a customer car close to the pace of a works team is a catastrophic error in judgement. Simply compare Red Bull and Toro Rosso's 2009 seasons for confirmation of this.

"If a team does not have the money to be in Formula One, they can go to GP2". What a completely absurd and elitist argument, and where would this mentality end? When only teams with budgets as big as Ferrari and McLaren are left? Yeah, good one. To look at it from a different angle, Lotus turned up last season on 6 months notice on a fraction of Ferrari's budget - Ferrari should put themselves in their shoes and ask themselves if they could have done any better, it might open their eyes a bit. Say what you want about Mosley but he was entirely correct to push for budget capping.

Creating three car teams in the current climate would simply start F1 on a downward spiral of slowly killing off the weakest team, ending in essentially a spec series with no variety and no space for ingenuity to win over, because having the most resources will be the only way to win the title. That is unless Formula 1 dies before that, because most of the fans leave due to the monotony of seeing one team fill the podium, press conferences and so on every week. F1 should make it easier for new blood to enter, not easier for those already at the top to simply sit and strengthen their position. That isn't what sport is about. Three car teams absolutely cannot be allowed to happen.


Excuse the long post