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User avatar
By Rivelution
#125050
Just have a clutch pedal and gear stick.


I think F1 should ban all the electronics in the car minus the radio and telemetry, that should make it exciting imo
User avatar
By headless
#127218
Radio.
What would they listen to.
Radio One sucks so maybe Classic FM.
User avatar
By texasmr2
#127335
Radio.
What would they listen to.
Radio One sucks so maybe Classic FM.

Ground control to Major Tom, commencing countdown engines on,
check ignition and may god's love be with you!

The plot has once AGAIN been lost or misinterpreted, take your pick. :rolleyes:
By autogyro
#160230
Sorry to disappoint red-five but epicyclic geartrains are much more efficient at transferring torque than the pre 19th century layshaft geartrain concept. They can also be much lighter because they have balanced burst loads.
Torque converters are inefficient until they are locked and have a weight penalty but then so are manual clutches that convert torque into high temperatures. Hydraulic operation also drains torque in automatics. It is even worse when using traction fluid in CVT,s or TVT's. These flatter to deceive using far to much power to operate.
Layshaft gearboxes are controlled using what amounts to a banana in a bowl of custard, the modern electronic control over gear selection is simply allowing a computer waggle the banana.
I suggested this automatic control over layshaft selection to Ferrari in 1988 based on my work during the 1970,s and 80,s, for the systems still to be in use makes me despair.
They are still using torque robbing layshaft geartrains either dog engagement or even worse twin shaft/clutch systems that drain even more torque in road cars.
The answer is no clutch or torque converter or hydraulics in a stepped ratio epicyclic. I have such a system. :banghead:
By suitcase
#177332
Ground control to Major Tom, commencing countdown engines on,
check ignition and may god's love be with you!

The plot has once AGAIN been lost or misinterpreted, take your pick. :rolleyes:

I love that song :D
User avatar
By Red_Five
#196659
Sorry to disappoint red-five but epicyclic geartrains are much more efficient at transferring torque than the pre 19th century layshaft geartrain concept. They can also be much lighter because they have balanced burst loads.
Torque converters are inefficient until they are locked and have a weight penalty but then so are manual clutches that convert torque into high temperatures. Hydraulic operation also drains torque in automatics. It is even worse when using traction fluid in CVT,s or TVT's. These flatter to deceive using far to much power to operate.
Layshaft gearboxes are controlled using what amounts to a banana in a bowl of custard, the modern electronic control over gear selection is simply allowing a computer waggle the banana.
I suggested this automatic control over layshaft selection to Ferrari in 1988 based on my work during the 1970,s and 80,s, for the systems still to be in use makes me despair.
They are still using torque robbing layshaft geartrains either dog engagement or even worse twin shaft/clutch systems that drain even more torque in road cars.
The answer is no clutch or torque converter or hydraulics in a stepped ratio epicyclic. I have such a system. :banghead:

On the contrary autogyro. I'm always happy to have my knowledge expanded by those who know more than I.
User avatar
By Mr.Conte
#211469
Sorry to disappoint red-five but epicyclic geartrains are much more efficient at transferring torque than the pre 19th century layshaft geartrain concept. They can also be much lighter because they have balanced burst loads.
Torque converters are inefficient until they are locked and have a weight penalty but then so are manual clutches that convert torque into high temperatures. Hydraulic operation also drains torque in automatics. It is even worse when using traction fluid in CVT,s or TVT's. These flatter to deceive using far to much power to operate.
Layshaft gearboxes are controlled using what amounts to a banana in a bowl of custard, the modern electronic control over gear selection is simply allowing a computer waggle the banana.
I suggested this automatic control over layshaft selection to Ferrari in 1988 based on my work during the 1970,s and 80,s, for the systems still to be in use makes me despair.
They are still using torque robbing layshaft geartrains either dog engagement or even worse twin shaft/clutch systems that drain even more torque in road cars.
The answer is no clutch or torque converter or hydraulics in a stepped ratio epicyclic. I have such a system. :banghead:


Most likely an issue of complexity of design, or bearing load or something like that.
Or, it's possible they just don't understand it enough.
It would be a compact unit but, a pain in the arse to work on.
User avatar
By texasmr2
#230620
I think they should go back to manual sequential gears like back in the 80's.

Just listen to this monster of a down shift by Senna at the end of the lap

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uMQgoOaqPnw

The manual's in the '80's were fully manual not sequential manuals as used today :wink: .
User avatar
By FRAFPDD
#235007
I know this question will piss people off but, in the F1 cars i thought they were all Automatic? so why were they talking about a clutch controlled car in the Brawn car??

Or is it certain cars? Explain Please :banghead:



i dont know how much i believe it but im sure everything in the world that runs on land with a motor engine has a clutch. dont automatics (for example the american cars like ford and GM) also have clutches, they just arent user operated? i also thought it was the reason automatic cars rev so high before the next gear, to compensate a slower clutch change then a human....?

Go on guys, tell me how wrong i am :rofl:
User avatar
By myownalias
#235013
I know this question will piss people off but, in the F1 cars i thought they were all Automatic? so why were they talking about a clutch controlled car in the Brawn car??

Or is it certain cars? Explain Please :banghead:

i dont know how much i believe it but im sure everything in the world that runs on land with a motor engine has a clutch. dont automatics (for example the american cars like ford and GM) also have clutches, they just arent user operated? i also thought it was the reason automatic cars rev so high before the next gear, to compensate a slower clutch change then a human....?

Go on guys, tell me how wrong i am :rofl:

OK, you're wrong... :P

But yes any vehicle with gears will need a clutch to disengage the running gear to be able to switch to a bigger (or smaller) cog, Automatics don't rev higher in normal driving conditions, my automatic SUV changes up at roughly 2 - 2,500rpm under normal acceleration, if I mash the accelerator to the floor it'll rev upto the redline before changing up!
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