FORUMula1.com - F1 Forum

[vaptin]

I only agree with team orders when they benefit the TEAM!!!!!!!!!!!!!! NOT an individual driver!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

It benefits the team to win the WDC.

[F1er]

No, you don't see, the teams collectively aim to win the WDC, it has never has been, and still isn't just down to the drivers themselves. After winning the WCC in Brazil, did Horner just go, job done from us? Or did he talk about how now they also had to win the WDC?

I'm also not sure about some sort of shift away from the teams towards the drivers, though I'm not knowledgeable on f1 history.

If Horner operated by the same thought process of 99% of F1 fans CRYING to use orders in favor of Webber,then Vettel would have ZERO WDC!!!!

I'm in the other 1% group! I personally would like the BEST driver be WDC! WITHOUT fixed/manipulative results!

[billindenver]

No, you don't see, the teams collectively aim to win the WDC, it has never has been, and still isn't just down to the drivers themselves. After winning the WCC in Brazil, did Horner just go, job done from us? Or did he talk about how now they also had to win the WDC?

I'm also not sure about some sort of shift away from the teams towards the drivers, though I'm not knowledgeable on f1 history.

If Horner operated by the same thought process of 99% of F1 fans CRYING to use orders in favor of Webber,then Vettel would have ZERO WDC!!!!

I'm in the other 1% group! I personally would like the BEST driver be WDC! WITHOUT fixed/manipulative results!

The boat has sailed mate. You are arguing about a decision that has already been made. This isn't a week after Germany. The teams had their input, many said team orders are the reality and the rule was stupid...and the rule is now gone. You can rant and rave and use a thousand !!!! per post but the fact is, Formula One is a team sport and will be as long as there are two cars per team. Perhaps you should start an internet email campaign to get rid of the second car. Then your imaginary utopia would be possible. As it is, it's not. It can't be enforced, so the rule was stupid. It's gone now. The time for crying and wringing your hands has passed. It's done.

[vaptin]

No, you don't see, the teams collectively aim to win the WDC, it has never has been, and still isn't just down to the drivers themselves. After winning the WCC in Brazil, did Horner just go, job done from us? Or did he talk about how now they also had to win the WDC?

I'm also not sure about some sort of shift away from the teams towards the drivers, though I'm not knowledgeable on f1 history.

If Horner operated by the same thought process of 99% of F1 fans CRYING to use orders in favor of Webber,then Vettel would have ZERO WDC!!!!

I'm in the other 1% group! I personally would like the BEST driver be WDC! WITHOUT fixed/manipulative results!

Oh look your argument has changed,

You would like the best driver to be the WDC, well how do you work that out considering they don't have equal cars?
I don't see how team orders fixes results.
Manipulative results? Well I don't want to watch the WDC winner drawn out of a hat, I'm quite happy to see teams use their abilities in an attempt to determine the outcome of the result.

Naturally, one hot topic was the abolition of the rule banning team orders. Finally, we have said goodbye to this pointless hypocrisy,” said Domenicali to the waiting microphones of several TV companies that greeted him at the end of the meeting. “For us, Formula 1 is a team sport and we have always maintained that viewpoint and it should be treated as such. The regulations already include points that prevent certain situations being managed in an extreme manner. The decision taken yesterday is very important.”

http://www.ferrari.com/English/Formula1 ... rshow.aspx

[F1er]

Vaptin! I have a question for you mate! are you a ferrari fan?

[vaptin]

Vaptin! I have a question for you mate! are you a ferrari fan?

Yeah pretty much, I follow them more than any other individual f1 team.
Although you got it wrong by calling them "my team", not yet. . .

[texasmr2]

The boat has sailed mate. You are arguing about a decision that has already been made. This isn't a week after Germany. The teams had their input, many said team orders are the reality and the rule was stupid...and the rule is now gone. You can rant and rave and use a thousand !!!! per post but the fact is, Formula One is a team sport and will be as long as there are two cars per team. Perhaps you should start an internet email campaign to get rid of the second car. Then your imaginary utopia would be possible. As it is, it's not. It can't be enforced, so the rule was stupid. It's gone now. The time for crying and wringing your hands has passed. It's done.

[F1er]

Vaptin! I have a question for you mate! are you a ferrari fan?

Yeah pretty much, I follow them more than any other individual f1 team.
Although you got it wrong by calling them "my team", not yet. . .

Well i follow drivers! and the driver I follow ATM would be most benefiting from t/o ! but I still DISAGREE ! Matter of opinions

[vaptin]

Vaptin! I have a question for you mate! are you a ferrari fan?

Yeah pretty much, I follow them more than any other individual f1 team.
Although you got it wrong by calling them "my team", not yet. . .

Well i follow drivers! and the driver I follow ATM would be most benefiting from t/o ! but I still DISAGREE ! Matter of opinions

It's not good for the spectacle in general, but neither is watching a driver start from pole and just win the race with no drama, I think on principle the idea that teams can instruct their drivers in accordance to their own internal policy should be acceptable (ie team orders shouldn't be banned).

But if doesn't matter if the rule is there or not, the teams still want to use team orders, you might as well legalise it rather than the shambles of the FIA turning a blind eye to it.

[spankyham]

Since I've played organized sports most my life heres my take!
In most sports there is ONE title! Goals,assists,touchdowns are statistics! at he end the WHOLE TEAM LIFTS THE CUP!

In F1 every race some1 gos to the podium,in the end some1 gets crowned WDC! I DIDNT SEE WEBBER JUMPING IN JOY FOR SEBS WDC! F1 teams have 2 cars 2 teams 2 drivers under 1 BRAND! SO forget the notion it's a team sport! I dont know anybody in their right mind going every week risking their lives,so their teammate can win! NONESENSE!!!!!!!!!!

Some sports where team mates take risks for their fellow team mates:-
Australian Touring Cars. Actually you can add just about all other team motor sports here. I posted a quote from a round of the ATC where the Vodafone team, explicitly told one driver to move over and let their other driver pass. It was done on TV, and the only comments from the media was why did it take them so long.
Another sport where teammates take big risks to help their other teammates win - ITF Taekwon-Do team sparring.
F1 apart from recent history - team orders were a total given. The example has been quoted here before of Fangio, who won a WDC by changing cars mid race. His car died, so the team called the other team car in, told the driver to get out and let Fangio take over.

I do actually understand your view, because you've explained that you have no interest in teams, just drivers. Nothing wrong with that, and it explains a lot.

But, you cannot deny that F1 is a team sport. Let me give you some information:-
This is from an official FiA press release from the 2007 Monaco GP. It arose from their investigations into McLaren as to whether they used team orders.
"The primary objective of any team is for one of their drivers to win. If this can be achieved they will try to ensure their other car finishes second."
Here is a quote from Ferrari's team boss Stefano Domenicali at the Bologna Motor Show yesterday.
"For us, Formula 1 is a team sport and we have always maintained that viewpoint and it should be treated as such."
Link here

Lastly, you raised the question about why would Ferrari bother to swap Fernando and Felipe at Germany, if Felipe was already in front?
It had nothing to do with Fernando or Felipe being #1 driver. It was because Ferrari were trying to ensure that they won the race. The circumstances as they saw them were that Felipe was first on track, Fernando was 2nd and right behind Felipe. Fernando showed he had more speed (perhaps because he could run a higher mixture, but he had done a better job of driving fast and conserving fuel, so he could run higher mixture). Sebastian was catching both Ferrari's. In the communications before being told "Fernando is faster than you" Felipe was urged to go faster and keep the gap. Unfortunately, on the harder tyres he couldn't do that at that track and time. So, Ferrari didn't favour Fernando, they were just ensuring they won the race. Somewhat like on a rugby field, if you have the ball and a defender is catching you as you run to the try line, if you have the option to pass to a teammate in a better position - well, you do it.

A lot of people don't want to accept that Ferrari apply team orders to win the race on the day, they prefer to portray it as promoting a #1 driver. Anyone that knows Ferrari's ethos will understand the truth of the matter. Every driver who comes to Ferrari is given a clear understanding, you drive for the team. The team comes first and foremost. Drivers that don't accept this either don't come or don't stay in the red car.

[racechick]

Be interesting to see if Alonso accepts Ferrari comes first if/when its his turn to move aside for a team mate. Methinks his understanding of 'the team comes first' will vanish.

[spankyham]

Be interesting to see if Alonso accepts Ferrari comes first if/when its his turn to move aside for a team mate. Methinks his understanding of 'the team comes first' will vanish.

I guess it remains to be seen, but, I think he will do the team thing. I think/hope Massa will be very competitive next year, so there's a good chance we will find out.

[vaptin]

Be interesting to see if Alonso accepts Ferrari comes first if/when its his turn to move aside for a team mate. Methinks his understanding of 'the team comes first' will vanish.

I think he knows he needs Ferrari more than they need him, settling into Ferrari is his last chance realistic hope of getting a WDC.

Tbh I don't think we'll see the day when Massa is outperforming Alonso consistently, your right though, it'd be interesting to watch.

[Robert12010]

Be interesting to see if Alonso accepts Ferrari comes first if/when its his turn to move aside for a team mate. Methinks his understanding of 'the team comes first' will vanish.

I think he knows he needs Ferrari more than they need him, settling into Ferrari is his last chance realistic hope of getting a WDC.

Tbh I don't think we'll see the day when Massa is outperforming Alonso consistently, your right though, it'd be interesting to watch.

i wonder what alonso would do, because he is slighty selfish at times, he probaly wouldnt move over for massa, but then i agree with vaptin, i dont think you will see massa doing better than alonso over the course of the season

[f1usa]

Be interesting to see if Alonso accepts Ferrari comes first if/when its his turn to move aside for a team mate. Methinks his understanding of 'the team comes first' will vanish.

Large appendage on shoulders would prevent overtaking.