FORUMula1.com - F1 Forum

[scotty]

Uh oh!!

The ban on team orders in Formula 1 will be dropped from next season, the FIA announced following its World Motor Sport Council meeting on Friday.

A number of changes were confirmed in the sporting regulations from 2011, and the governing body said the "article forbidding team orders (39.1) is deleted."

The FIA said, however, that there would still be a rule to allow it to punish teams if it considers they had brought the sport into disrepute with their actions.

"Teams will be reminded that any actions liable to bring the sport into disrepute are dealt with under Article 151c of the International Sporting Code and any other relevant provisions," it said.

A team orders row erupted following this year's German Grand Prix, where the Ferrari team asked Felipe Massa to give way to Fernando Alonso to win the race.

Ferrari was fined $100,000 for its actions, although no further punishment was imposed, with the FIA vowing to clarify team orders rules.

The FIA also said on Friday that all team radio communications will be made available to broadcasters from the 2012 season.

But in retaining the rule allowing them to punish the teams for causing disrepute, they are simply replacing one grey area with another...

[vaptin]

You had to get rid of the current rule, I'm very surprised they didn't reword it.

But the move - telegraphed when the FIA said it would look into the rule after deciding against giving Ferrari further punishment - is the only practical solution open to F1.

However offensive some find team orders, there is simply no way of effectively policing a rule banning them. There are any number of ways a team could employ them without anyone finding out. Ferrari might have got found out because of the unsubtle way in which Felipe Massa was asked to let team-mate Fernando Alonso through in Hockenheim but other leading teams also employed what could be termed team orders in 2010 and no one complained about them - or, in some cases, even noticed.

It is about reality, not idealism. If you cannot police a rule, what's the point of having it? And surely it's better to have it out in the open than to force teams to go through the ridiculous charades some - not just Ferrari - did last season.

The lifting of the ban does not mean all teams will act in the same way as Ferrari, who now don't need to be quite so secretive about Alonso being their number one driver.
It simply means that when teams choose to use them they don't have to cover it up.
In every other way, nothing will change.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/andrewbenson ... ve_ra.html

[scotty]

I think the way they have left the 'bringing the sport into disrepute' bit in is to stop the blatant passes on track, but contradictorily, and somewhat amusingly, i predict teams are still going to be using coded orders to avoid themselves being classed as bringing the sport into disrepute!!!

[vaptin]

I think the way they have left the 'bringing the sport into disrepute' bit in is to stop the blatant passes on track, but contradictorily, and somewhat amusingly, i predict teams are still going to be using coded orders to avoid themselves being classed as bringing the sport into disrepute!!!

Now the rule has been removed, the teams may tacitly agree not to use team orders as much as possible, while article 151.c, which refers to bringing the sport into disrepute, remains intact.
That article warns against: "any fraudulent conduct or any act prejudicial to the interests of any competition, or to the interests of motorsport generally".

That wording tends towards teams being open (to remove the fraudulent charge), prejudicial to the interests of any competition doesn't sound too dissimilar to the old wording "that can't be justified in terms of the championship". For the final term, considering how common team orders are in motersport I don't see team orders generally being seen as prejudicial to the interests of motorsport.

[texasmr2]

Man we all thought the off season was the 'silly season' now it's a full 12 months !

[Fred_C_Dobbs]

The FIA's lack of resolve in enforcing the old rule was what brought the sport into disrepute, not the teams' flaunting of it. It was an unenforceable rule in any event, so good riddance.

[F1er]

Brings the sport into disrepute = fans in mayhem

It surely will make for an interesting season to see how early teams will resolve to #1s and #2s

[Fact Man]

It's good in one way but this "disrepute" statement is obscure.

What is considered disrepute: is it telling a driver to move aside? or telling a driver to crash into his opponent?

Go figure, typical FIA. Hopefully they will clarify this point before the season starts.

[F1er]

FIA underestimates f1 fans,thinking that we dont know even when orders are applied in "code"

This rule makes for a perfect "race fixing" scenario, punish X team but not Y team for doing the same since they didnt ("disrepute") the {sport}

[7UpJordan]

Fernando is faster than you.

[F1er]

Fernando is faster than you.

So is Lewis,Sebastian,Robert etc etc!

If teammates CANT race e/o then they should award points to only 1 driver per team! whomever finishes higher

[vaptin]

Fernando is faster than you.

So is Lewis,Sebastian,Robert etc etc!

If teammates CANT race e/o then they should award points to only 1 driver per team! whomever finishes higher

Why? The second driver would still be racing all drivers apart from his team mate, for his position after giving way, its still down to other drivers to pass him for those points.

[F1er]

Fernando is faster than you.

So is Lewis,Sebastian,Robert etc etc!

If teammates CANT race e/o then they should award points to only 1 driver per team! whomever finishes higher

Why? The second driver would still be racing all drivers apart from his team mate, for his position after giving way, its still down to other drivers to pass him for those points.

why????

because then we have 2 races
the #1s racing e/o
the #2s racing e/o

[vaptin]

No we don't, the number 2's of one team should still be racing the number ones of other teams.

[F1er]

It also makes for a good movie script

I just dont see this rule being applied and carried out properly! will see how it pans out