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[spankyham]

So we have 750Hp now. And they're proposing to commit teams to spending tens of millions of dollars to .... stay the same. How stupid can F1 get. I'm annoyed that Ferrari caved in on this.

If the 750 is including KERS, what the heck does that mean? In 2 years we can watch F1 cars that, for a handful of seconds per lap they are as powerful as now, for the rest of the lap they will be about the same as a GP2 now?

F1 used to be the leading edge supreme racing technology. Now it's being railroaded towards recipe-formula mediocrity. Lets just make it "open wheel NASCAR" and be done with.

[texasmr2]

So we have 750Hp now. And they're proposing to commit teams to spending tens of millions of dollars to .... stay the same. How stupid can F1 get. I'm annoyed that Ferrari caved in on this.

If the 750 is including KERS, what the heck does that mean? In 2 years we can watch F1 cars that, for a handful of seconds per lap they are as powerful as now, for the rest of the lap they will be about the same as a GP2 now?

F1 used to be the leading edge supreme racing technology. Now it's being railroaded towards recipe-formula mediocrity. Lets just make it "open wheel NASCAR" and be done with.

Actually we have about 850hp now . Now wrap your mind around this your complaint would hold water if we actually knew that the engines would be V4's but that is not the case. I honestly believe we will see I4's as there is way to much techno and existing hardware to fall back on.

Ferrari did not cave-in as they want to compete and could quite possibly have the hardware sitting around collecting dust just waiting for the return of the turbo I4 days .

Hows that for engine shag!!

Oh and welcome to F1 where nothing makes sense most of the time but we still love it .

[smokin]

So we have 750Hp now. And they're proposing to commit teams to spending tens of millions of dollars to .... stay the same. How stupid can F1 get. I'm annoyed that Ferrari caved in on this.

If the 750 is including KERS, what the heck does that mean? In 2 years we can watch F1 cars that, for a handful of seconds per lap they are as powerful as now, for the rest of the lap they will be about the same as a GP2 now?

F1 used to be the leading edge supreme racing technology. Now it's being railroaded towards recipe-formula mediocrity. Lets just make it "open wheel NASCAR" and be done with.

I share your disgust. F1 is either the pinnacle of motorsport or it's not; there's no middle way. At first I welcomed the return of turbos - I seem to remember power outputs approaching 900hp in race trim and well over 1,000hp in qualifying - but the dumbed down versions suggested for 2013 are disappointing.

[smokin]

Oh and welcome to F1 where nothing makes sense most of the time but we still love it .

[texasmr2]

So we have 750Hp now. And they're proposing to commit teams to spending tens of millions of dollars to .... stay the same. How stupid can F1 get. I'm annoyed that Ferrari caved in on this.

If the 750 is including KERS, what the heck does that mean? In 2 years we can watch F1 cars that, for a handful of seconds per lap they are as powerful as now, for the rest of the lap they will be about the same as a GP2 now?

F1 used to be the leading edge supreme racing technology. Now it's being railroaded towards recipe-formula mediocrity. Lets just make it "open wheel NASCAR" and be done with.

I share your disgust. F1 is either the pinnacle of motorsport or it's not; there's no middle way. At first I welcomed the return of turbos - I seem to remember power outputs approaching 900hp in race trim and well over 1,000hp in qualifying - but the dumbed down versions suggested for 2013 are disappointing.

Change is hard for most to accept but I know you will still be watching and complaining so go buy a F1 team, buyout Bernie and then show us your revision.

[smokin]

Change is hard for most to accept but I know you will still be watching and complaining so go buy a F1 team, buyout Bernie and then show us your revision.

[Robert12010]

im sure that the new engine changes will be fine, its the same with all other rules changes, we're unsure at first, then its fine, so dont worry!

[The_Stig_Money]

Lets just make it "open wheel NASCAR"

Its called Indycar. JK

The new engines are probally trying to be more reliable, even though the modern engines are the most reliable.

It feals like F1 technology is taking a step backwards

[texasmr2]

It feals like F1 technology is taking a step backwards

Not necessarily when you think about it. Since F1 is hellbent on using more 'road car' technology along with the recent, past few years, influx of turbo engines compared to high rpm engines F1 is going in the right direction, of course this is only Uncle Tex's opinion .

[bud]

F1's moving with the times. Its inevitable fossil fuels wont last for ever so this fuel efficient approach is the right step, heaven forbid they went hydro electric....

[nish2280]

Hows that for engine shag!!

Oh and welcome to F1 where nothing makes sense most of the time but we still love it .

Is it wrong that this arouses me...

(I mean the engine, not Tex...no offense though)

[darwin dali]

Hows that for engine shag!!

Oh and welcome to F1 where nothing makes sense most of the time but we still love it .

Is it wrong that this arouses me...

(I mean the engine, not Tex...no offense though)

I don't know. You tell us!

[spankyham]

I guess I have 2 more seasons to come to terms with this - but I still don't like it.

Having said that, I was wondering why Ferrari would change their position on this. So, begrudgingly accepting that this will be the new power-plant for F1 cars what could it mean.

The first thing I realized was that there is definitely the potential for a team to gain a significant advantage over other teams - which will be way harder than the DD and Newey's aeros to overcome/copy. I think this because the rules constrain certain aspects, but, leave other aspect with almost no constraints - well, in my opinion that good.

Here are the areas where I think teams could focus to gain a significant advantage over other teams, while achieving the required specifications:-
1) engine efficiency - this is huge, basically internal combustion engines are still very inefficient and therefore this is a huge upside here
2) Induction - towards the end of the previous turbo era this aspect of the engine became, IMO, more important than the turbo itself.
3) Low friction - there are lots of very interesting ideas around at the moment - could some of these find there way into an F1 engine over the next few years?
4) thermal efficiency/range - especially around the combustion, intake and outlet phases
5) KERS - with the proviso that we need to know more about it's use in '13, for example the power is doubled, but, will it be time limited again, and if so, will it be the ridiculous 6.5 seconds?

The teams best placed will be those with the best brain(s) - eg aero's were the determining factor in success this year and it's no co-incidence that the best team - Red Bull - had the best brain - Adrian Newey.

From a Ferrari perspective, our Engine and Electronics Director is a massive plus, Luca Marmorini. His track record is very impressive.

The other potential advantage Ferrari has is the enormous investment FIAT has made in practical implementation of induction and variable air-intake depending on engine needs. There are lots of practical benefits here including power increases, even greater torque increases, efficiency and lower emissions. I'd imagine Ferrari will have untethered access to all that research and data, hopefully (from a Tifosi perspective) they are already using it

[bud]

Aero will still play a massive role in 2013, infact the shapes of the cars might revert to a lower shape as we saw in the 80s as the need for the air intake above the drivers head wont be needed. You'll find as you were mentioning the air intake for the turbo will be as short as possible so would be located on the side pods.

[darwin dali]

I guess I have 2 more seasons to come to terms with this - but I still don't like it.

Having said that, I was wondering why Ferrari would change their position on this. So, begrudgingly accepting that this will be the new power-plant for F1 cars what could it mean.

The first thing I realized was that there is definitely the potential for a team to gain a significant advantage over other teams - which will be way harder than the DD and Newey's aeros to overcome/copy. I think this because the rules constrain certain aspects, but, leave other aspect with almost no constraints - well, in my opinion that good.

Here are the areas where I think teams could focus to gain a significant advantage over other teams, while achieving the required specifications:-
1) engine efficiency - this is huge, basically internal combustion engines are still very inefficient and therefore this is a huge upside here
2) Induction - towards the end of the previous turbo era this aspect of the engine became, IMO, more important than the turbo itself.
3) Low friction - there are lots of very interesting ideas around at the moment - could some of these find there way into an F1 engine over the next few years?
4) thermal efficiency/range - especially around the combustion, intake and outlet phases
5) KERS - with the proviso that we need to know more about it's use in '13, for example the power is doubled, but, will it be time limited again, and if so, will it be the ridiculous 6.5 seconds?

The teams best placed will be those with the best brain(s) - eg aero's were the determining factor in success this year and it's no co-incidence that the best team - Red Bull - had the best brain - Adrian Newey.

From a Ferrari perspective, our Engine and Electronics Director is a massive plus, Luca Marmorini. His track record is very impressive.

The other potential advantage Ferrari has is the enormous investment FIAT has made in practical implementation of induction and variable air-intake depending on engine needs. There are lots of practical benefits here including power increases, even greater torque increases, efficiency and lower emissions. I'd imagine Ferrari will have untethered access to all that research and data, hopefully (from a Tifosi perspective) they are already using it

Yeah, FIAT started early - see below: