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[Robert12010]

Yeah that's what I'm saying. But what some people are doing here is dumb down Jensons incapacity to keep up with Lewis while hyping up Lewis' errors this season. Can't understand why, maybe they wanted Jenson to beat Lewis this year but too bad it hasn't happened. Probably never will.

well i think that lewis's mistakes are highlighted more often than others simply because of the fact that the media in general expect so much of lewis and when it does go wrong they latch on to it (espically the british media)

[vaptin]

FFS, I'm pretty sure racechick will concur, we were discussing their errors made over the season, just a spot of analysis without going "OMG I love/hate Lewis!" this is is the problem, some of you aren't able to grasp the concept of looking at the finer details and have to shout about one single damn point, anything that disagrees with that (even if its just coincidental) just doesn't compute.

The errors Lewis made and Jenson made are pretty much quantative based, the debate is in what constitutes an error (and hazy memories on what happened). You by no means have to discuss it, in that case kindly shut up and don't insist on derailing it. Being unable to accept the concept that Lewis made mistakes, without going on and bigging him up massively looks like a serious psychological flaw to me.

So, I'll put it simply, do you feel the three errors listed that Lewis made are valid, and can you recall any Jenson made?

I guess what we're discussing is along the lines of consistency.

[bud]

Lets make a list of all the drivers errors why just Lewis? let me start with Mr EyeBrows Vaptin ok

[vaptin]

Lets make a list of all the drivers errors why just Lewis? let me start with Mr EyeBrows Vaptin ok

Oi, I thought we agreed best not to ages ok.

And we're supposed to not fight in the off season

Oh, and this is the Lewis v Jenson thread, I think replacing this for the Alonso Massa thread next season would be good.

[The Ram]

So... let me see.... from what i remember:

Jenson got dominated in Q.
Lewis made much more (ie 'some', as opposed to... eh... hmmm... none?) driving mistakes. Don't remember Jenson hitting or even clipping anyone; dont remember jenson ever going wide (except that spin at Korea... and he didn't really go wide there, did he? hehe)

They were pretty much evenly paced during the races.

Experience counted for very little as the Champion proved
The tire wear thing ALMOST made a difference, because Jenson was considerably better to his tires, but the tires lasted so long anyways... so it made no real difference, except in a few races for a few laps. Maybe Jenson had a bit more flexibility in his strategies... and this is why he was able to ussually finish well positioned despite getting handicapped for Q.

Rubbish!

Equal on PACE?! Check F1 matrix for SOLID DATA that shows that Jenson was dominated on pace in all the races except a single one.

Vettel made mistakes, Alonso made mistakes, Hamilton made mistakes, Webber made mistakes... and they all finished with more points than Button... Tell me since Button was driving so perfectly why wasn't he in front of everybody else? ------- Simple because even a perfect Jenson is no match a shoddy Hamilton.

And for the tyres, let us face it, making tyres last longer means nothing if you're not going fast on them... He can save his tyres for Christmas if he wanted to, it aint gonna get him points at the end of the race.

[The Ram]

when did Button show he was insecure?

All the time. For example he had to rely on Hamilton's telemetry and setup data all throughout the season.. addicted to it like crack. Then he has the nerve to blame the car and anything else when he can't heat up his tyres.

I want you to watch the Jenson Button track interviews on BBC for the Korea race... never seen a man so desolate!

[texasmr2]

when did Button show he was insecure?

All the time. For example he had to rely on Hamilton's telemetry and setup data all throughout the season.. addicted to it like crack. Then he has the nerve to blame the car and anything else when he can't heat up his tyres.

Proof where's your frickin proof??

[Robert12010]

So... let me see.... from what i remember:

Jenson got dominated in Q.
Lewis made much more (ie 'some', as opposed to... eh... hmmm... none?) driving mistakes. Don't remember Jenson hitting or even clipping anyone; dont remember jenson ever going wide (except that spin at Korea... and he didn't really go wide there, did he? hehe)

They were pretty much evenly paced during the races.

Experience counted for very little as the Champion proved
The tire wear thing ALMOST made a difference, because Jenson was considerably better to his tires, but the tires lasted so long anyways... so it made no real difference, except in a few races for a few laps. Maybe Jenson had a bit more flexibility in his strategies... and this is why he was able to ussually finish well positioned despite getting handicapped for Q.

Rubbish!

Equal on PACE?! Check F1 matrix for SOLID DATA that shows that Jenson was dominated on pace in all the races except a single one.

Vettel made mistakes, Alonso made mistakes, Hamilton made mistakes, Webber made mistakes... and they all finished with more points than Button... Tell me since Button was driving so perfectly why wasn't he in front of everybody else? ------- Simple because even a perfect Jenson is no match a shoddy Hamilton.

And for the tyres, let us face it, making tyres last longer means nothing if you're not going fast on them... He can save his tyres for Christmas if he wanted to, it aint gonna get him points at the end of the race.

I think we are all in agreement that your not a jenson fan!

[The Ram]

Well, in the sporting world I like power and dominance. And it ruffles my feathers when people/the media try to deny those two things. I realise that the f1 world likes to fawn over the underdogs for some reason, I really don't know why. (I like to call it the "Robert Kubica" syndrome)...

Anyway, I have nothing against Button. If it was Kimi Raikkonen in the other seat, I would act the same way; only instead of reacting to Button fans I would have to fend off the masses of Raikkonen fans blabbering on about "Kimi and Hamilton were evenly matched!"

Now for Button garnering Hamilton's telemetry..It happens every single race. I have carefully observed photos, videos and comments from the media and from Button himself. We all know that Mclaren has begun this year (to ensure driver equality)"round table" discussions, in which the drivers and engineers all come together over one table after each driving session to discuss setups, data and strategies. If you watch closely the TV and media , one thing is always constant in all the races... Button talking to Hamilton's engineer for extended periods of time. The eagle eyed among us can even tell when the Macca Boys change setups and parts in the sessions and it always boils down to, with probably three or four exceptions, Button copy catting Hamilton then tuning on top of that. I even have interviews where buttons says "I changed setup and the car is better but still lacks some balance" guess who's setup that is?

All the respected Journalists know this, but they sweep it under the carpet. Why do you think James Allen didn't even rank Button in the top 5 catergory? Just think about it, even yours truly has Button in the top 5.

[texasmr2]

Still no factual proof only your opinion or those of the journo's you believe . I doubt you will ever expand your 'mind' anytime soon when it comes to finding any fault in Lewis and there in is your fault, sorry if the truth hurts you but reality is a biatch.

[Robert12010]

Well, in the sporting world I like power and dominance. And it ruffles my feathers when people/the media try to deny those two things. I realise that the f1 world likes to fawn over the underdogs for some reason, I really don't know why. (I like to call it the "Robert Kubica" syndrome)...
Anyway, I have nothing against Button. If it was Kimi Raikkonen in the other seat, I would act the same way; only instead of reacting to Button fans I would have to fend off the masses of Raikkonen fans blabbering on about "Kimi and Hamilton were evenly matched!"

Now for Button garnering Hamilton's telemetry..It happens every single race. I have carefully observed photos, videos and comments from the media and from Button himself. We all know that Mclaren has begun this year (to ensure driver equality)"round table" discussions, in which the drivers and engineers all come together over one table after each driving session to discuss setups, data and strategies. If you watch closely the TV and media , one thing is always constant in all the races... Button talking to Hamilton's engineer for extended periods of time. The eagle eyed among us can even tell when the Macca Boys change setups and parts in the sessions and it always boils down to, with probably three or four exceptions, Button copy catting Hamilton then tuning on top of that. I even have interviews where buttons says "I changed setup and the car is better but still lacks some balance" guess who's setup that is?

All the respected Journalists know this, but they sweep it under the carpet. Why do you think James Allen didn't even rank Button in the top 5 catergory? Just think about it, even yours truly has Button in the top 5.

well just on your first point there, bear in mind that Robert kubica is a very good driver and wouldnt call him a underdog lol
and i do agree that jenson did have a fair amount of problems setting the car up, compared to lewis, and yes the set up is coming from lewis's car but im sure that jenson now had a season with mclaren will be able to set up the car better plus im sure there have moments that lewis may have to had taken pieces of data from jenson's set up plus also yes lewis was the better driver over the season based on statistics

[F1er]

Lewis will show yet another year his superiority over his teammates. My 2 cents

[texasmr2]

Lewis will show yet another year his superiority over his teammates. My 2 cents

Wrong thread try this one .
viewtopic.php?f=2&t=9550

[F1er]

Lewis will show yet another year his superiority over his teammates. My 2 cents

Wrong thread try this one .
viewtopic.php?f=2&t=9550

You saying Jenson will beat Lewis in 2011???
if not my sense of direction is fine

[texasmr2]

Lewis will show yet another year his superiority over his teammates. My 2 cents

Wrong thread try this one .
viewtopic.php?f=2&t=9550

You saying Jenson will beat Lewis in 2011???
if not my sense of direction is fine

No I'm not saying he will just making fun of you for having a crystal ball.