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[bud]

What do you mean "Hamilton threw the championship away for the second time" ???? He's no more thrown away the championship than any other of the campionship contenders who dont end up winning. His car is hardly up to challenging but he's been thereabouts. Why do you have to single him out.

2007 - China Brazil
This year - Monza etc.

I don't agree that the MP4-25 is not up to the challenge. Think you're selling the team a bit short with that comment. As I posted in the AD thread - which car produced the fastest lap at Brazil in the race last weekend? And it was done when both Seb and Fernando were rattling off their fastest laps!

And if Alonso loses the title will we say he threw it away at Spa? Or his Jump start? What a load of poo to call an incident during a season and not in the last race as throwing it away! s*** happened to all the contenders to single out one as throwing it away due to errors but not the others just proves bias.

And McLaren has not had the car advantage this year they enjoyed in 07,08!

[kaizensuru]

Massa has earned the right to be supported by the team, if not more, than Alonso.

He is supported by his team, just that he has to support Alonso, his teammate, due to his inability to have a valid pace with Ferrari this season.

If he would have beaten Alonso we wouldn't be talking about this.

[spankyham]

What do you mean "Hamilton threw the championship away for the second time" ???? He's no more thrown away the championship than any other of the campionship contenders who dont end up winning. His car is hardly up to challenging but he's been thereabouts. Why do you have to single him out.

2007 - China Brazil
This year - Monza etc.

I don't agree that the MP4-25 is not up to the challenge. Think you're selling the team a bit short with that comment. As I posted in the AD thread - which car produced the fastest lap at Brazil in the race last weekend? And it was done when both Seb and Fernando were rattling off their fastest laps!

And if Alonso loses the title will we say he threw it away at Spa? Or his Jump start? What a load of poo to call an incident during a season and not in the last race as throwing it away! s*** happened to all the contenders to single out one as throwing it away due to errors but not the others just proves bias.

And McLaren has not had the car advantage this year they enjoyed in 07,08!

Are you ever not angry?

[bud]

That wasn't me angry, you don't want to see me when I'm angry

[billindenver]

Massa has earned the right to be supported by the team, if not more, than Alonso.

Ok, you guys are out of control. How was Massa not supported by Ferrari this year? Was he doing testing for Alonso every race? Other than being told to get out of the way, after spending the entire race being told to speed up....what else has Ferrari done to this poor, abused millionaire race car driver? Seriously. We keep hearing, from mods no less, that he's suffered all season from a clear number two status. Other than the fact that all year long he has been the slower driver...what has Ferrari done to put him into a number two status?

If anyone made Massa a number two driver...it's Massa. Just like Button...he has nobody to blame buy himself.

[What's Burning?]

Massa has earned the right to be supported by the team, if not more, than Alonso.

Ok, you guys are out of control. How was Massa not supported by Ferrari this year? Was he doing testing for Alonso every race? Other than being told to get out of the way, after spending the entire race being told to speed up....what else has Ferrari done to this poor, abused millionaire race car driver? Seriously. We keep hearing, from mods no less, that he's suffered all season from a clear number two status. Other than the fact that all year long he has been the slower driver...what has Ferrari done to put him into a number two status?

If anyone made Massa a number two driver...it's Massa. Just like Button...he has nobody to blame buy himself.

[f1ea]

Whenerver the title is lost/won by such a small margin it can be put down to the smallest of events.......
Alonso... not giving the place back to Kubica?
Vettel... the Hungary penalty?
Webber... the smash in Korea?
Hamilton... the Monza incident?

... it's easy to become world champion when you don't have a competitive team mate and clear #1 status...

I just can't believe that I read this.

Yeah. Me neither!
its easy to become WDC??!! i dont think so.

[Troyron]

Both drivers have similar experience, being a double world champion doesn't change that, it's easy to become world champion when you don't have a competitive team mate and clear #1 status,[/quote]

Yes it is easy, just have to beat the arguble best f1 driver of all time when he is on his best

[vaptin]

What do you mean "Hamilton threw the championship away for the second time" ???? He's no more thrown away the championship than any other of the campionship contenders who dont end up winning. His car is hardly up to challenging but he's been thereabouts. Why do you have to single him out.

2007 - China Brazil
This year - Monza etc.

I don't agree that the MP4-25 is not up to the challenge. Think you're selling the team a bit short with that comment. As I posted in the AD thread - which car produced the fastest lap at Brazil in the race last weekend? And it was done when both Seb and Fernando were rattling off their fastest laps!

And if Alonso loses the title will we say he threw it away at Spa? Or his Jump start? What a load of poo to call an incident during a season and not in the last race as throwing it away! s*** happened to all the contenders to single out one as throwing it away due to errors but not the others just proves bias.

We could though couldn't we? Alonso's made a lot of mistakes, he shouldn't be in this. If he doesn't win, I'd rather forget so lets not actually bring all that stuff up, if he does win it I'll forgive him though.

It is a fairly thankless task though, going through events adding up points that could/ should might have been.

[texasmr2]

Massa has earned the right to be supported by the team, if not more, than Alonso.

Ok, you guys are out of control. How was Massa not supported by Ferrari this year? Was he doing testing for Alonso every race? Other than being told to get out of the way, after spending the entire race being told to speed up....what else has Ferrari done to this poor, abused millionaire race car driver? Seriously. We keep hearing, from mods no less, that he's suffered all season from a clear number two status. Other than the fact that all year long he has been the slower driver...what has Ferrari done to put him into a number two status?

If anyone made Massa a number two driver...it's Massa. Just like Button...he has nobody to blame buy himself.

HEY, oh nevermind wrong thread lol

[FRAFPDD]

OK, maybe it was a bad analogy in hindsight, but Massa should be given equal standing, pulling the team order eleven races into the season was harsh on Massa, we will never know what psychological damage that has done to Massa, if he was allowed to win, maybe he would have went on to win other races. Another analogy; if you constantly get passed over for promotion, you tend not to try so hard to do the best job possible or look for alternative employment!

Racing drivers learn to deal with disappointment far before they end up in an F1 car. Cars fail, teams send you down the pitlane with your fuel hose attached etc.... and that's at F1's level. The levels below that are even more apt to disappoint. If one race has really caused Massa's mystical psyche to shatter...the man needs to get out of a race car. I would say Button getting T-boned in a braking area by Vettel was more disappointment than Massa being forced to stand on the second step. Hamilton's wheel departing, Webber's airborne excursion, Webber being taken out of the race lead by Vettel, Schumachers complete inability to compete....there are many many incidents this year that have to be harder to handle than Massa being on the podium but not winning. Hamilton threw the championship away, for the second time...and I don't see anyone crying for his pschological damage. I'm not fan of Hamilton, but at least he isn't in a position where untold numbers of fans make excuses for his shattered ability to compete. He's a racing driver...he bounces back and makes another run at it. Massa is far less of a driver...and considering the money he is paid to drive a race car, I'm not going to feel sorry for him if he really is that soft. If you are right and Germany caused him psychological damage that affected the rest of his season....he needs to be replaced immediately by a driver with some balls.

The team spent most of Germany trying desperately to get Massa to pick up the pace before they either did or did not issue a team order. Massa put himself in the position he ended up in, and your suggestion that it was a season long #2 position is laughable. Nothing suggests that, other than your imagination.

What do you mean "Hamilton threw the championship away for the second time" ???? He's no more thrown away the championship than any other of the campionship contenders who dont end up winning. His car is hardly up to challenging but he's been thereabouts. Why do you have to single him out.

Im sorry but the only year where Hamilton can take account for throwing it away is 2010, that is clear cut, his car isnt best no, but he did throw away bounties of points in monza, his biggest mistake all season, and singapore was IMO 50/50 so he has to take some blame for that. But i have to admit guys i think your subconsciously looking for a rise of people suggesting Hamilton has thrown two titles out of 3 chances away and hes the only one thats done that. n 2007 Mclaren decided not to pit a worried Lewis in China and he came off track with such shot tires, shot tires is an understatement of the century by the way, you could practically see the wheel rim through it, and Brazil he lost a place through being brake tested first corner (cant gelp that can he?) and yes did run wide through his own dault, and the neutral thing also lost him places, and correct me if im wrong he only lost the championshup by a point, which he surely would have had wwithout that neutral incident and brake test where alonso got past. Im not a blinded fanboy its just i feel the need to defend a driver who has been singled out in a post and said to have "thrown away" two WDC's, thats not gravy.

[texasmr2]

The driver has the final say so as when to pit not the team as they are not in the car .

[FRAFPDD]

The driver has the final say so as when to pit not the team as they are not in the car .

LOL ok even if that was his mistae (it really wasnt lol) i still think its unjust to say he threw it away, he did this year though, despite stunning driving. That said, he isnt actually out of this years.......

[texasmr2]

The driver has the final say so as when to pit not the team as they are not in the car .

LOL ok even if that was his mistake (it really wasnt lol) :

If that helps you sleep at night then sobeit

[Four mules as one]

This whole Massa/Alonso relationship reminds me of the Mansell/Prost scenario back in 1990 when Prost joined the team as a 3 time World Champion and Mansell announced his retirement by the British Grand Prix, obviously he went from being a Ferrari hero in 1989 to feeling unsupported compared to his new teammate who was winning and battling for the championship.

And Mansell, changed his mind on retirement and joined Williams Renault for 91 and the year after won the title. I think Massa should do the same by changing teams and rebuild himself, although he may have left it a bit late. He should have gone looking elsewhere as soon as Germany happened.

But I think thats the difference between Massa and Mansell, Mansell would never have pulled over in Germany. He would have claimed a faulty radio and after the race they would have checked it and found out it worked perfectly. Actually, I bet back then they wouldn't have even had the balls to ask him in the first place. Check out Nigel here where I think he's jumped the fence to go and punch out someone who looks a bit like Prost.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_FgjOTrpjLE

and check this out at 3:35 for a blow up at his own team, I think this is Peter Windsor copping it

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JdhysblW7bA

Brilliant