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[vaptin]

He was doing poorly before Germany as well, anyway if he wants to be at a top team he needs to be mentally strong. He said it himself when he was talking about "fight" after Germany, he's got the motivation to prove to the team and himself he can compete. He's got Rob Smedly supporting him, and has had public support from the team, heck he's even thanked them for it hasn't he?

Want a driver not feeling the love from his team? Look at Mark Webber.

[bud]

Sick of hearing excuses of how poorly he was doing as justification! He was going to win a race ffs that's not poor at all!

[vaptin]

Sick of hearing excuses of how poorly he was doing as justification! He was going to win a race ffs that's not poor at all!

Look at the points. Where was he in relation to Alonso? And where were both of them in relation to the WDC leader?

[bud]

mate youre like a broken record. If this helps you sleep at night good on ya, I dont care! end of the day it was BS from Ferrari.

[vaptin]

mate youre like a broken record. If this helps you sleep at night good on ya, I dont care! end of the day it was BS from Ferrari.

I never bring it up, just respond to when it is brought, and in keeps being brought up.

[FRAFPDD]

Sick of hearing excuses of how poorly he was doing as justification! He was going to win a race ffs that's not poor at all!

Look at the points. Where was he in relation to Alonso? And where were both of them in relation to the WDC leader?

To be fair, i agree the team order thing was the right thing to do, but wasnt Massa leading the championship earlier on in the season, whos to say (and i guess ferrari were) that his consistency whilst Alonso was making all those mistakes could win him a wdc, or be in a better position at least. That Germany "win" ould have been a huge confidence boost.

[vaptin]

Yes, but considering Alonso' mistakes he should have been trailing Massa in Germany, he wasn't, and has stopped making as many mistakes now. lets give Massa that win, ok so how many points has Alonso made up to get to the top of the WDC (as it stands now) since Germany? Massa was behind Alonso he would have to make up even more points than Alonso did, the only time Alonso has dropped points since then (that I judge was his fault)I think has been Spa, where else would Massa have been able to get to the top of the WDC through gaining more points than Alonso has done since Germany?

[bud]

You can't give massa the win but then still use the following events that transpired in making your point! Guess you're not smart on time traveling paradoxes huh

[vaptin]

You can't give massa the win but then still use the following events that transpired in making your point! Guess you're not smart on time traveling paradoxes huh

That's only if you subscribe to the butterfly beats its wings, causes a hurricane half way across the world idea, I don't, I more of a you what a big change or event, go and do something important rather than thinking relatively small changes make a difference.

[bud]

Sorry mate it's not a theory! You can't change one event without altering everything that followed also! Massa winning would have changed his entire confidence and the way he approached the following races thus changed his performance and results!

[vaptin]

Sorry mate it's not a theory! You can't change one event without altering everything that followed also! Massa winning would have changed his entire confidence and the way he approached the following races thus changed his performance and results!

Don't make me ask for a citation, I can't be bothered to read up on it.

I'm assuming Massa was full of confidence

I was comparing Massa to how Alonso has done (so taking Alonso as a baseline), take the points Alonso has won since Germany, add that onto Massa's points going into Germany (so Massa gets the 7 points), now add in say, third for Spa where I think Alonso was at fault and there's room for Massa to have done better (indeed he did there anway). I think Massa's points total would not be enough to be leading the WDC? I don't see any other oppurnity aside from Spa for Massa to have realistically improved upon what Alonso had got,

[Sea Bass]

Sorry mate it's not a theory! You can't change one event without altering everything that followed also! Massa winning would have changed his entire confidence and the way he approached the following races thus changed his performance and results!

Don't make me ask for a citation, I can't be bothered to read up on it.

I'm assuming Massa was full of confidence

I was comparing Massa to how Alonso has done (so taking Alonso as a baseline), take the points Alonso has won since Germany, add that onto Massa's points going into Germany (so Massa gets the 7 points), now add in say, third for Spa where I think Alonso was at fault and there's room for Massa to have done better (indeed he did there anway). I think Massa's points total would not be enough to be leading the WDC? I don't see any other oppurnity aside from Spa for Massa to have realistically improved upon what Alonso had got,

Very true. In short Massa would have needed to replicate Alonso's results since Germany, though he would have need a win instead of a DNF in Spa to be leading the WDC.

[bud]

Yeah I would expect that from an Alonso fan, realistically he is 5 tenths faster than everyone to you guys!

[vaptin]

Yeah I would expect that from an Alonso fan, realistically he is 5 tenths faster than everyone to you guys!

No, almost the opposite, I don't see any ground aside from Spa for Massa to have increased Alonso's results, 3wins nothing more can be said there, and the other races the redbulls were just untouchable whilst I believe Alonso was behind them in third?

That's some fast maths Mr Bass, interesting,

Heck I'm assuming this increase in confidence for Massa would have completely transformed his performance, I'm also assuming Alonso wouldn't have taken points of him.

[AKR]

I doubt Alonso will win the title but obviously it would be extremely nice if he did. Anyway if he does win it, I hope he wins it by less than 7 points just to make everyone else look like absolute idiots for not using team orders themselves.