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[hounddub]

All this talk of "firing Mark Webber" is rediculous.

You are talking about one of the team's favourite sons who has been (short of a short period with Williams) a piece of the furniture at Milton Keynes for a LONG time. He was there when they were Jaguar Racing.

No only does Mark Webber have a contract with Red Bull for 2011, he has delivered for them as a consistant driver all year as well as probably undertaking most of the development and set-up responsibilities in a team where Vettel is still learning those skills.

There is not a single team in Formula 1 which wouldn't experience this kind of "pressure cooker" antics if they had 2 driver in the hunt for the championship....they are both motivated drivers who want to win. This is certainly magnified given that Red Bull has never been in a situation to actually win it....which is why McLaren and Ferrari are maybe a little better at managing these knids of situations.

Just like at McLaren, Red Bull have the perfect combination of a "young gun" and an "experienced head" in their cars. They wouldn't want to lose that in my opinion. Can you imagine the histrionics at Red Bull if Vettel was teamed with Buemi or Algersuari?

[Big Azza]

I can see your point. It's a point that has been made many times before. In Monaco and Catalunya I'm sure he had Red Bull's support then.

Remember he started off as the number 2 driver because he showed he was number 2 last year. He won over his team in Catalunya and Monaco, but I can't remember that far back to see if Red Bull proved it. But at Silverstone he showed he was an arrogant prick. He drove a great race (I didn't watch it because of the World Cup), and showed what a great driver he was, but ironically he did what a number 2 driver was expected to do: Win the race when the number one driver gets bumped off.

That's not his wing nor was it his chassis. Last time I checked they had Red Bull branding on it and they belong to his team. Their reasons for justifying the swap was a good one, and it was justifiable. Yes the team made a boo-boo in their handling of the Turkish incident.

But I'd imagine Vettel was distraught because of an instant hate campaign directed at him, and the team needed to defend their apprentice and point out that Webber did actually break a rule. Helmut Marko should shut the fluff up though. Correct me if I'm wrong, but Marko actually has no role in the team other than being an advisor to Mateschitz, and being a mentor to Sebastian. He has nothing to do with the operations of the team.

Helmut has been entrusted with the job of making sure Vettel becomes a future great and that Mateschitz's money has been well spent. I think after that he was given an order from his boss to zip it or else, and then Berger has to open his bloody mouth...

What has Horner said? Newey? Mateschitz? They've all said that the drivers are being treated equally. I don't think Mateschitz is one to lie....

[hounddub]

The one thing for sure is that Gerhard Berger is a pretzel!

[Big Azza]

The one thing for sure is that Gerhard Berger is a pretzel!

+1 to that.

And sorry I didn't see your earlier comment I was still replying Hansy. I don't think he's one of their favourite sons. Otherwise he wouldn't be complaining like he is.

What they do have is a Red Bull driving academy which will field a few future World Champions. Vettel now, and Ricciardo is the next up and coming who will be just epic if he gets a seat next year. I feel there's something Vettel-esque about Ricciardo and I think Vettel+Ricciardo will be the dream team of the future.

And if Ricciardo fails they have more drivers who Mateschitz has invested time and money into buying. He would have only picked the best and can quickly iron out the duds. Webber is just warming a seat for another Red Bull driver, so why would he be making such comments? Red Bull really don't need him - they are well-staffed.

I don't want to upset my fellow Aussies on the forum (I'm starting to cool down now), but Webber really really disappointed me.

[Hansy]

Not the favourite to the directors; I think he probably meant the staff from Milton Keynes, that was there long since they started being Red Bull, most of them are probably rooting for Webber. Now I remembered the "wing wars" between the mechanics, that was pretty funny.

About the young driver academy; I expect big things from Daniel Ricciardo, too, but first he has to step into F1 and succeed. Given that Alguersuari and Buemi are both staying into 2011, maybe he'll enter STR in 2012? I hope not at the expense of Jaime. He's been so unlucky, in Korea he was running ahead of Liuzzi, they pitted at the same time, but Jaime had trouble in his pit stop and fell behind. Liuzzi would come to finish 6th. Jaime was 11th - in Japan he had already lost 10th to Buemi because of some late pitstop, I think battling with Kobi, today he lost out 10th again to Kobi on fresher tyres. It's sad, really specially when the STR car is a piece of crap.

[Big Azza]

Sorry to say Hansy, but looking at the results this year it appears that Buemi has been consistently better placed than Algy.

But yeah I wasn't suggesting Ricciardo would be in Red Bull next year. Although reading my posts I certainly failed to point this out. Red Bull drivers must start at Torro Rosso first. I think we'll see Buemi in next year if Webber leaves - as great as it would be to see Algy there, I think another season in STR couldn't do him any harm. I want to see regular points finishes from him.

I think either Buemi or Algeursuari would be great at Red Bull next year. They'll be just trying to prove they're competitive so Vettel will be free to do his thing. It would be a good thing for Red Bull, and they could really focus on winning both championships through the young man they've invested millions into.

It would a nice way for Webber to go out on a high by winning the title this year - just so long as he acknowledges the team's support I'll be happy. I've been so proud of him for the past 2 years, but I just felt a little bit betrayed before the Brazillian GP.

First reading his comments about not even going out of his way to say hello to the kid, to now saying the team are against him. I think the driver pairing has been either an experiment gone wrong, or it could be labelled a success when you consider they are now WCC.

I do not wish anything bad to happen to him - but I do think he was out of line and should be driving elsewhere next year, because that's clearly what he wants.

[CarBore]

I can't really see anyone else taking Webber's seat. Neither STR drive has done anything of particular note, certainly nothing of the scale that Seb did while he was in Toro Rosso. I also can't see there being a reason to pull a Red Bull young driver straight into the Red Bull A team. Webber has a contract for 2011.

When it comes to 2012 unless Buemi or Alg pull out something incredible I'd rather have the Red Bull management keep Webber or pull another fast and experienced driver.

[Big Azza]

I can't really see anyone else taking Webber's seat. Neither STR drive has done anything of particular note, certainly nothing of the scale that Seb did while he was in Toro Rosso. I also can't see there being a reason to pull a Red Bull young driver straight into the Red Bull A team. Webber has a contract for 2011.

When it comes to 2012 unless Buemi or Alg pull out something incredible I'd rather have the Red Bull management keep Webber or pull another fast and experienced driver.

I agree with this. However, if Webber should leave they have to give another Red Bull driver a seat. Maybe Raikkonen as was hinted earlier here, but Ricciardo is ready to race in my opinion so why bother getting someone other than Ricciardo, Alguersuari or Buemi?

But it is a good point - I haven't thought of Raikkonen yet. But it's not the Red Bull way. The Red Bull way is to rush unproven youngsters into race seats, and watch how they handle the pressure. I must admit Algy did remarkably well. But Algy has only had a couple of points finishes this year - he hasn't scored since Catalunya. Is that good enough? Dunno. I think he's doing okay.... He might start getting pressured to deliver next year. But by the sounds of him, he sounds pretty confident that he will be at Torro Rosso in 2011 and that he is a chance to drive for Red Bull in 2012.

[Hansy]

About Alguersuari, he was clearly beating Buemi in the beggining of the season - while Jaime was battling around the Mercedes, Buemi was playing the "who can has moar DNFs" game with the Saubers. Starting on Monaco Buemi got the upper hand, and Jaime kind of disappeared for most of the midseason; now he's back in the fight, and deserved to have scored some points in the end of season, he's been putting a lot of strong performances, which haven't been rewarded because his car isn't good enough. One thing I noticed is Jaime really shines in the wet; makes me think of Sutil a few years ago. He even won a practice session already! Let's also not forget he was running on new tracks for most of the year, which Buemi knew already. He raised substantially his game in qualifying lately, probably because of that. In the last 8 races, Alguersuari has beaten Buemi in 6 of them. Before that, he did it only once, in China.

So, if you asked me which one I'd put in a Red Bull - I'd say Jaime, hands down. But then I'm tremendously biased. But you'd realize it's not such a bad idea after all...

[Big Azza]

Hey being bias is cool. It works for me!

At the end of the day Mateschitz makes the call. Algy would be better at selling drinks because he's also a part-time DJ and is such a spunk!

[CarBore]

Given the choice between the 2 I would choose Algy too. But we still have 1 year to see. If things go that way I can see less people having a problem with RB treating Seb as number 1. Buemi/Algy could be like Heiki was for Lewis at McLaren

[Hansy]

Given the choice between the 2 I would choose Algy too. But we still have 1 year to see. If things go that way I can see less people having a problem with RB treating Seb as number 1. Buemi/Algy could be like Heiki was for Lewis at McLaren

I don't think any of them would be as miserable as Heikki. He looks like a really cool guy, but the way he happened to land at a McLaren seat was pure luck - with McLaren wanting to get rid of Alonso ASAP, sending him back to Renault, to get Kovalainen who did a lackluster 2007 championship really. If they had picked the likes of Sutil, things could have gone very differently, for example, the 2008 WCC could very well be at McLaren's hands right now...

Hey being bias is cool. It works for me!

At the end of the day Mateschitz makes the call. Algy would be better at selling drinks because he's also a part-time DJ and is such a spunk!

What is a spunk? (no, seriously, English isn't my first language, the only meaning for "spunk" I know is... umm... milky stuff )

[CarBore]

Given the choice between the 2 I would choose Algy too. But we still have 1 year to see. If things go that way I can see less people having a problem with RB treating Seb as number 1. Buemi/Algy could be like Heiki was for Lewis at McLaren

I don't think any of them would be as miserable as Heikki. He looks like a really cool guy, but the way he happened to land at a McLaren seat was pure luck - with McLaren wanting to get rid of Alonso ASAP, sending him back to Renault, to get Kovalainen who did a lackluster 2007 championship really. If they had picked the likes of Sutil, things could have gone very differently, for example, the 2008 WCC could very well be at McLaren's hands right now...

Do you think that it would hurt RB in a potential WCC situation though. Look at Ferrari vs Mclaren this year. I don't think anyone could argue Ferrari wasn't the faster car but Mclaren are ahead in WCC because they have a stronger pairing

[Big Azza]

It's my DD moment, and I never want to be quoted on this again.

But he has a very large young teenage girl following, because he's... erm... good-looking. This is a good part of the market for Formula One and Red Bull to tap into. Lets have more teen girls following F1!

[Hansy]

It's my DD moment, and I never want to be quoted on this again.

But he has a very large young teenage girl following, because he's... erm... good-looking. This is a good part of the market for Formula One and Red Bull to tap into. Lets have more teen girls following F1!

Oh LOL. Why do you think I started to follow Alguersuari? Surely not because he was the bestest racer to ever get into F1