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[spankyham]

Even though Bernie is probably the worst thing about F1 (now that Mosley is gone), it doesn't mean that occasionally, probably by accident, he actually says something that makes sense and is true. For me this is one of those times.

These teams are a total embarrassment to F1. And I include Lotus in this lot. They are slow, don't have the capacity to develop their car.

Having said that, it's not all their fault, in fact, the blame lies mostly with Mosley in my opinion. These teams weren't brought in to help F1, they were introduced to try and diminish the power of FOTA during the ridiculous "budget" battle.

We wouldn't accept a driver coming into to F1 without any serious racing experience, yet, for some reason, these teams, some with absolutely no experience of credentials were welcomed.

I'd welcome any new teams into F1, but they should have to prove themselves first. Race in other categories, show they can manage a car and team. Once they have proved themselves, let them apply.

These teams being allowed into F1 was as silly as accepting an elementary school graduate into University.

[myownalias]

This may come as a shock but I actually agree with some of what you said Spankyham!

These teams came into F1 at the expense of teams like Lola and Prodrive who both have motorsport pedigree. You can't help but think that these two outfits could have been more competitive, especially Prodrive who have a proven track record in motorsports, we know Dave Richards can manage a team! But given the resources available and the testing ban; teams like Lotus and Virgin have done well to stay within a 3 - 4 seconds, HRT have been a massive disappointment but that looks to change next season!

[spankyham]

This may come as a shock but I actually agree with some of what you said Spankyham!

These teams came into F1 at the expense of teams like Lola and Prodrive who both have motorsport pedigree. You can't help but think that these two outfits could have been more competitive, especially Prodrive who have a proven track record in motorsports, we know Dave Richards can manage a team! But given the resources available and the testing ban; teams like Lotus and Virgin have done well to stay within a 3 - 4 seconds, HRT have been a massive disappointment but that looks to change next season!

Excellent Smithers

[texasmr2]

The teams are not the embarressment its the stupid rules setforth that do not allow new fledgling teams to achieve the goals percieved as appropriate by that senile idiot. He is now having to 'sleep in the bed he made' which is full of:

cockroach-1.jpg

[myownalias]

When you look back 15 years and you see teams like Minardi and the mobile chicanes that were Forti (with unlimited testing), they were still slower than even HRT today! So it's a great achievement for the teams that have had next to no testing and some cars didn't even touch a wind tunnel!

[billindenver]

I have zero problem with the backmarker performance level. They get no testing at all, so in my mind they are ALL doing very well. The embarrassment argument is ridiculous. Fans don't judge F1 by it's slowest team...if anything that team proves how hard the front runners have to work (spend). They add drama when the front runners start lapping them and let's face it....some if these tracks when combined with the dirty air problem are quite boring (thanks Tilke...you fuk)....so a bit of drama is welcome.

Besides, if they bother Bernie...I might have to buy some HRT gear

[Denthúl]

The lack of testing that billindenver picks up on is very important. With such small budgets and a lack of testing, I'm a little surprised that these teams have been able to improve, rather than slip further back. It's impressive, not embarrassing.

[nish2280]

When you look back 15 years and you see teams like Minardi and the mobile chicanes that were Forti (with unlimited testing), they were still slower than even HRT today! So it's a great achievement for the teams that have had next to no testing and some cars didn't even touch a wind tunnel!

Yes but when you compare HRT with a team like Prodrive or Lola, who have been making AND racing cars for the last couple of a decades, they would have hade massive potential compared to HRT.

These new teams this year seem to think, Profit first, Race later.

[myownalias]

When you look back 15 years and you see teams like Minardi and the mobile chicanes that were Forti (with unlimited testing), they were still slower than even HRT today! So it's a great achievement for the teams that have had next to no testing and some cars didn't even touch a wind tunnel!

Yes but when you compare HRT with a team like Prodrive or Lola, who have been making AND racing cars for the last couple of a decades, they would have hade massive potential compared to HRT.

These new teams this year seem to think, Profit first, Race later.

I'm not arguing the point that Prodrive and Lola would have been better competitors; I think that is universally acknowledged! I would have been happier with Prodrive, Lola and Lotus instead of HRT and Virgin, HRT are probably always going to be also rans as they are never likely to have enough financial clout to make a big jump!

[Denthúl]

Interestingly, HRT don't look set to finish at the bottom of the WCC table...

They have three 14th place finishes, compared to Virgin Racing's two. Mr. Branson will not enjoy that, I'm sure.

[The_Stig_Money]

Somehow i think that was taken out of context, Bernie sounds like a grumpy old man but that is a little harsh.

This was obviously said towards Bernie:

“They do nothing for us,” the recently-turned 80-year-old told the Financial Times. “They are an embarrassment. We need to get rid of a few of those cripples.”

I have much respect for the new teams in F1, every real race fan does as well.

[f1ea]

I believe the new teams are an embarrassment. But an embarrassment to the way their entries were implemented.
So i'd blame everyone BUT the teams themselves for them being slow and/or poor.

[Mr.Conte]

He's right on with this one as they are an embarrassment.
It would of been better to have teams field 3 cars instead of adding the new teams.
Hindsight? I would have the new teams take their cars to a specified track and have them prove to the FIA that their car / driver package can produce competitive times.
If not, they are out till next season.

[texasmr2]

He's right on with this one as they are an embarrassment.
It would of been better to have teams field 3 cars instead of adding the new teams.
Hindsight? I would have the new teams take their cars to a specified track and have them prove to the FIA that their car / driver package can produce competitive times.
If not, they are out till next season.

How can anyone in their right mind think that a new team can or should be able to compete with teams that have years if not decades of development and competition experience, especially with no testing allowed?

[Mr.Conte]

He's right on with this one as they are an embarrassment.
It would of been better to have teams field 3 cars instead of adding the new teams.
Hindsight? I would have the new teams take their cars to a specified track and have them prove to the FIA that their car / driver package can produce competitive times.
If not, they are out till next season.

How can anyone in their right mind think that a new team can or should be able to compete with teams that have years if not decades of development and competition experience, especially with no testing allowed?

They can't and THAT is the stupidity of the Bernie world.
This class of racing is being killed by restrictive ruling.
It is the ruling that is causing a procession instead of wheel to wheel racing.
Rule 1, you can run any engine you want but, with a weight trade off.
Rule 2, any suspension technology is acceptable as long as it passes safety inspections.
Rule 3, any aerodynamic development is welcome as long as all four wheels are open and not enclosed by body work.
Thats it..... lets race.