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[billindenver]

McLaren team orders = ok?
Ferrari team orders = conspiracy?

Team orders have been and will always be apart of any form of racing. Just too clarify I have not read every post/comment/opinion in this thread simply because I don't bother myself with such things but I get the jest of the debate, ok for some teams but not for others. Is the pot calling the kettle black or am I way off base?

Listen Tex, I'm going to save the lambs some typing by telling you that McLaren team orders were tactics, and Ferrari's are orders. Can't you see the difference? Ok, I'll dumb it down for you....listen up:

In Team Tactics. The team puts one driver in front of the other for the benefit of the team.

In Team Orders. The team puts on driver behind the other for the benefit of the team.

Clearly, now that I've explained it to you....you can see that McLaren does no wrong and Ferrari is the devil....right? I mean, it's as clear as day.

[texasmr2]

McLaren team orders = ok?
Ferrari team orders = conspiracy?

Team orders have been and will always be apart of any form of racing. Just too clarify I have not read every post/comment/opinion in this thread simply because I don't bother myself with such things but I get the jest of the debate, ok for some teams but not for others. Is the pot calling the kettle black or am I way off base?

Listen Tex, I'm going to save the lambs some typing by telling you that McLaren team orders were tactics, and Ferrari's are orders. Can't you see the difference? Ok, I'll dumb it down for you....listen up:

In team TACTICS. The team puts one driver in front of the other for the benefit of the team.

In team ORDERS. The team puts on driver behind the other for the benefit of the team.

Clearly, now that I've explained it to you....you can see that McLaren does no wrong and Ferrari is the devil....right? I mean, it's as clear as day.

Thank you Billy I knew someone with common sense would set me on the 'straight and narrow', thankfully it was you .

[billindenver]

I'm here for you bro. Someone has to keep you texas lawmen straight...or you'll go around shooting innocent civilians. I mean more often than normal.

[racechick]

All besides the point, just cause someone was there it doesn't mean they saw any more than i did on the TV. The coverage showed all the right cars at the right time, the gaps were very clear, just watch a replay of those laps on iplayer or something.

So racechick, you are saying you actually think there was some team order? I mean, where is the radio conversation and any evidence apart from what some journo wrote? And why isn't this massive news, is it some big cover up conspiracy?

I know what i saw with my own eyes, and once again, this is what happened The man behind Massa on track was Schumacher - who followed him into the pits when the SC was immediately deployed. After Alonso pitted and rejoined, Massa was indeed just behind him, but Schumacher was nowhere to be seen. So if anyone was holding people up it must have been Schumacher. Additionally, the gap between Hamilton and Massa remained the same throughout.

Yep Im saying it could have been a team order. I watched the BBC coverage and the cars were not shown all round the track throughout the safety car period becuase the TV was showing the pitstops. Maybe you watched another feed . Vettel and Alonso missed the chance to come in and had to come next time.Keeping Schumacher and the remainder slower ensured Alonso only lost a place to Hamilton when his pitstop screwed up. The safety car was out for a long time so just seeing the last bit doesnt tell what happened throughout that safety car period. I cant get ot on Iplayer, its saying its not available but I watched it on a recording earlier today, its wiped off now.

[billindenver]

How did this team order take place? It wasn't on the radio call or the FIA would have flipped out. It wasn't on the pit board or there would be pictures all over the media. Was it smoke signals from the pit lane? Telepathic transmission from Italy? Flashing light morse code from the stands? Perhaps its in Massa's contract that he allow them to place a radio receiver inside his head so they can beam instructions, or better yet control his body remotely. That was what that spring to the head incident was all about...an excuse to operate on Massa's head so they could insert the control mechanisms. I'll bet you could find a british journalist willing to write that story too.

[vaptin]

I'll assume scotty is correct , if the gap from Massa - Sumacher was huge how did Massa back up the pack? How did Massa back off if the gap to him and Lewis didn't increase? Unless Lewis backed of as well?

[racechick]

He didnt have to back it up throughout the whole safety car period though did he, only until Alonso got out.Then he could go any speed, job done.

[vaptin]

He didnt have to back it up throughout the whole safety car period though did he, only until Alonso got out.Then he could go any speed, job done.

I don't think scott's points referred to the whole safety car period though, I thought he just meant the lap in which was Massa's out lap and ALonso's inlap.

What laps was it? I'm going to look it up on the iplayer.

[racechick]

He didnt have to back it up throughout the whole safety car period though did he, only until Alonso got out.Then he could go any speed, job done.

I don't think scott's points referred to the whole safety car period though, I thought he just meant the lap in which was Massa's out lap and ALonso's inlap.

What laps was it? I'm going to look it up on the iplayer.

I tried but iplayer told me it wasnt available. . Well Button went to inters on lap 28 and it was the next safety car after that. Vettel was passed the pit entry, Alonso might just have made it but the ferrari crew didnt respond quick enough. When he did come in next lap he had that wheel nut problem, thats when Massa held up the pack and cost himself a position in order to stop any more getting past. Let me know what you find. If you google team orders Korea GP there are loads of references to it.

[vaptin]

*Shurgs, all I can find is reference to that autosport article, which I think is in the magazine and not online so I can't read it. If there was a radio message, it hasn't been broadcast, the only thing to do is find the times and gap between Alonso and Massa for that period.

Alonso's pit stop was 27 seconds, Massa's 24 seconds. If Alonso was at least three seconds ahead of Massa just before the pit stop, that assumes his inlap and Massa's out lap was identical which doesn't suggest Massa backing up the gap.

Is the live timing data for the race still available?

[racechick]

*Shurgs, all I can find is reference to that autosport article, which I think is in the magazine and not online so I can't read it. If there was a radio message, it hasn't been broadcast, the only thing to do is find the times and gap between Alonso and Massa for that period.

I doubt there'd be an obvious message, not after last time. Probably a coded one. It would be Massa's time during Alonso's pit stop not after Alonso was out the pits.

[nish2280]

McLaren team orders = ok?
Ferrari team orders = conspiracy?

Team orders have been and will always be apart of any form of racing. Just too clarify I have not read every post/comment/opinion in this thread simply because I don't bother myself with such things but I get the jest of the debate, ok for some teams but not for others. Is the pot calling the kettle black or am I way off base?

Exactly! How is this different to what button did in Suzuka, hell how on earth did they get that message out to massa so fast without anyone noticing except Mark Hughs of autosport who was too much of a wimp to even print it, instead just started a stupid conspiracy theory for Hamilton fans to thrive on since they cant accept that someone other than their driver could win a race on fair grounds.

/rant over.

[racechick]

McLaren team orders = ok?
Ferrari team orders = conspiracy?

Team orders have been and will always be apart of any form of racing. Just too clarify I have not read every post/comment/opinion in this thread simply because I don't bother myself with such things but I get the jest of the debate, ok for some teams but not for others. Is the pot calling the kettle black or am I way off base?

Exactly! How is this different to what button did in Suzuka, hell how on earth did they get that message out to massa so fast without anyone noticing except Mark Hughs of autosport who was too much of a wimp to even print it, instead just started a stupid conspiracy theory for Hamilton fans to thrive on since they cant accept that someone other than their driver could win a race on fair grounds.

/rant over.

Yes he did print it. Its in the race report. He wrote the race report.

[texasmr2]

Regardless of who wrote what or how it was conspired or percieved by some the fact remains that team orders are and will always be 'apart' of the game. The season is nearly over so save some fuel for the off-season kaos and it will offer me alittle more time to buy yet another pair of rubber boots !

[nish2280]

McLaren team orders = ok?
Ferrari team orders = conspiracy?

Team orders have been and will always be apart of any form of racing. Just too clarify I have not read every post/comment/opinion in this thread simply because I don't bother myself with such things but I get the jest of the debate, ok for some teams but not for others. Is the pot calling the kettle black or am I way off base?

Exactly! How is this different to what button did in Suzuka, hell how on earth did they get that message out to massa so fast without anyone noticing except Mark Hughs of autosport who was too much of a wimp to even print it, instead just started a stupid conspiracy theory for Hamilton fans to thrive on since they cant accept that someone other than their driver could win a race on fair grounds.

/rant over.

Yes he did print it. Its in the race report. He wrote the race report.

I'm sorry, i just dont respect Mark Hughes, he is hugely biased and writes for BBC (heavily biased). He suggests that RedBull are once again favouring Vettel over Webber with their exhaust blown diffuser because it suites his driving style.