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[myownalias]

Pfff And Massa's excuse to the German stewards wasnt also a lie?

Did I say that? - Massa's "it was my decision to let Fernando pass" is an obvious lie, especially given the radio messages that went before and after the switcheroo. Just because a driver follows team orders doesn't mean they are absolved of guilt; doesn't matter who the driver is or the team they drive for.

[vaptin]

Pfff And Massa's excuse to the German stewards wasnt also a lie?

It wasn't provable,

Meh, I was just pointing out to Robert the team had lied to help Hamilton despite him saying he would like to think not.

--

I think the main obstacle to teams using team orders, is trying to keep their second driver happy, Vettel and Button for example are both insisting on chasing the title, but I think Whitmarsh's comments clearly show he would rather be able to focus on Lewis at this stage.

[nish2280]

Well technically it was his choice. He could have just been like "Well then its a good thing we are racing eh?" and then just ignored all radio contact. Its not like Barrichelo, they werent on the radio with the lawyers and bringing up contract specifics.

[spankyham]

Pfff And Massa's excuse to the German stewards wasnt also a lie?

Did I say that? - Massa's "it was my decision to let Fernando pass" is an obvious lie, especially given the radio messages that went before and after the switcheroo. Just because a driver follows team orders doesn't mean they are absolved of guilt; doesn't matter who the driver is or the team they drive for.

It's just wonderful having such inside information available here. Amazing you can have such clear impeccable knowledge that Felipe had absolutely no option or choice but to let Fernando past.

Obviously you know even more than the WMSC did when they gave their decision.

Despite Felipe maintaining it was his decision to follow the team strategy, YOU know 100% for sure better than to believe he had any choice.

Felipe is a liar - myown says so

[Bubbie]

Come on Spanky... Even YOU need to admit that someone was lying. The Ferrari story changed so much, I thought they were trying to make the case to go to war with Iraq.

[spankyham]

Come on Spanky... Even YOU need to admit that someone was lying. The Ferrari story changed so much, I thought they were trying to make the case to go to war with Iraq.

I think the WMSC got it right.

Ferrari was found guilty of team orders - and Ferrari accepted their punishment.

But, Felipe didn't lie. It was his decision to move over.

What the WMSC found was that the "pressure" of the Ferrari team strategy was so high that it put doubt in their minds as to whether Felipe's decision was balanced. They did not at any point cast doubt on Felipe's decision - unlike myown who seems happy to declare Felipe a liar. That's what I object to, and I make no apologies for defending him.

[Bubbie]

Kinda like how I make the decision to get that report done when the Director comes into my office and tells me to do it?

[spankyham]

Kinda like how I make the decision to get that report done when the Director comes into my office and tells me to do it?

That's a far fairer description.

If you wanted to put the Germany thing into that context I do it this way:-

Your boss came into your office and said, "hey remember you said you were gonna help out on Saturdays, well, we are looking for someone to work a shift next Saturday and we really need to be fully staffed that day".

If you said you decided to work that day - how would you feel if I went around calling you an out-and-out liar?

[What's Burning?]

Kinda like how I make the decision to get that report done when the Director comes into my office and tells me to do it?

Are you lumping Massa in with the rest of us middle managers?

[What's Burning?]

Kinda like how I make the decision to get that report done when the Director comes into my office and tells me to do it?

That's a far fairer description.

If you wanted to put the Germany thing into that context I do it this way:-

Your boss came into your office and said, "hey remember you said you were gonna help out on Saturdays, well, we are looking for someone to work a shift next Saturday and we really need to be fully staffed that day".

If you said you decided to work that day - how would you feel if I went around calling you an out-and-out liar?

I'd rather he didn't work Saturday, he makes lousy coffee.

[FRAFPDD]

Come on Spanky... Even YOU need to admit that someone was lying. The Ferrari story changed so much, I thought they were trying to make the case to go to war with Iraq.

I think the WMSC got it right.

Ferrari was found guilty of team orders - and Ferrari accepted their punishment.

But, Felipe didn't lie. It was his decision to move over.

What the WMSC found was that the "pressure" of the Ferrari team strategy was so high that it put doubt in their minds as to whether Felipe's decision was balanced. They did not at any point cast doubt on Felipe's decision - unlike myown who seems happy to declare Felipe a liar. That's what I object to, and I make no apologies for defending him.

as long as in the near future if button moves for hamilton, to which the latter wins tge wdc by 1 point your the first to defend him

[spankyham]

Come on Spanky... Even YOU need to admit that someone was lying. The Ferrari story changed so much, I thought they were trying to make the case to go to war with Iraq.

I think the WMSC got it right.

Ferrari was found guilty of team orders - and Ferrari accepted their punishment.

But, Felipe didn't lie. It was his decision to move over.

What the WMSC found was that the "pressure" of the Ferrari team strategy was so high that it put doubt in their minds as to whether Felipe's decision was balanced. They did not at any point cast doubt on Felipe's decision - unlike myown who seems happy to declare Felipe a liar. That's what I object to, and I make no apologies for defending him.

as long as in the near future if button moves for hamilton, to which the latter wins tge wdc by 1 point your the first to defend him

100%. I'd support & agree & commend him for doing it.

I could completely understand if he was disappointed that he had to give up a place, but that would just make me admire his team spirit even more.

I'd feel just the same as if I'd watched a brilliant behind the back assist in basketball, or a magnificent cross in soccer which enabled a team mate to score and help his team win.

[bud]

Felipe didnt lie? you're either delusional or just a Ferrari Lamb if you believe that! Take your pick!

[What's Burning?]

I had Ferrari lamb once, but the pasta puttanesca was better.

[myownalias]

Pfff And Massa's excuse to the German stewards wasnt also a lie?

Did I say that? - Massa's "it was my decision to let Fernando pass" is an obvious lie, especially given the radio messages that went before and after the switcheroo. Just because a driver follows team orders doesn't mean they are absolved of guilt; doesn't matter who the driver is or the team they drive for.

It's just wonderful having such inside information available here. Amazing you can have such clear impeccable knowledge that Felipe had absolutely no option or choice but to let Fernando past.

Obviously you know even more than the WMSC did when they gave their decision.

Despite Felipe maintaining it was his decision to follow the team strategy, YOU know 100% for sure better than to believe he had any choice.

Felipe is a liar - myown says so

Why do you have such a big issue with me? you jump on every post I make that mentions Ferrari, I express my opinion and your reaction is to try and belittle me! From now on I'll PM you with my posts in advance and you and read them and make any changes you feel necessary before PM'ing me back with the edited version for me to post!

And Ferrari were still guilty as the stewards decision was upheld; they just escaped further punishment with their "McLaren used team orders in Turkey" defence!!!

I had Ferrari lamb once, but the pasta puttanesca was better.

Sounds good, can you PM me the recipe?