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#222011
Hey Big fella, I give you points for the honesty, much better than someone that might "allude" to this idea yet cower behind a subtle play on words.

I don't mind racing hard, and I can handle whatever luck dishes up, that's part of racing. Play as hard as you can, bend the rules if you need to, play mind-games - that's all part of F1.

But wanting to risk killing someone to win? That's just not on - no matter how desperate you are.


ayrton senna took that chance a few times with alain prost back in the day....


And shame on him for doing so. Just because Senna does it, doesnt mean its OK.


but i think with senna, he wanted to be the greatest and just couldnt be second best under any circumstances but he is still a legend!


It still doesnt mean its ok. He is a legend because he was an awesome driver, not because he crashed other people out because he didnt want to be second.
#222014
I think most of it was joking spanky, people are probably only semi serious at the most about wanting a DNF from Alonso.

I've joked about drivers crashing etc before, particularly with Vettel and never meant it. Also seen others do the same with other drivers, jokes about Sutil causing incidents his collisions with Kimi etc, heck ironically little Piquet was a common subject until it turned out he actually crashed on purpose once.

Collisions are part of f1, so I don't think there's a lot wrong with making light of them. I bet the drivers themsleves to too,

It's fairly clear where its out of order, like Schumacher and Rubens at Sliverstone this year.
#222023
I think most of it was joking spanky, people are probably only semi serious at the most about wanting a DNF from Alonso.

I've joked about drivers crashing etc before, particularly with Vettel and never meant it. Also seen others do the same with other drivers, jokes about Sutil causing incidents his collisions with Kimi etc, heck ironically little Piquet was a common subject until it turned out he actually crashed on purpose once.

Collisions are part of f1, so I don't think there's a lot wrong with making light of them. I bet the drivers themsleves to too,

It's fairly clear where its out of order, like Schumacher and Rubens at Sliverstone this year.


I started by saying I hoped it was jokes I wasn't getting or just not serious. If it's said in jest, fine, if I didn't get it, then I'll join in and laugh at myself.

But some responses were just disturbing.

I'm not sure about drivers laughing at crashes, e.g. Zanardi. Even the accident that took Senna away from us looked just so innocuous. Yet he paid the ultimate price.

BTW I think you mean Hungary for Michael/Rubens :-)
#222025
Webber might joke about the Hekki incident, Massa possibly sees the funny side with getting hit by a spring on the head. It's just a natural way to control/ release their emotions, they know crashes are dangerous, they don't need to be told that.

But it looks like most of the posts here were more in the line of "redbull drivers have collided with plenty of people this year, Alonso's next".
#222091
People here seems to forget that Massa is still playing in the race and he has shown his committment for the team. He also has enough pace to Crash out one of the leading RB guy (Probably Weber) and hamilton for sure under his race speed. If vettle and Alonso to race for first two then game over for Red Bull. Janson is crap all along the season and if he does something wrong then he would be banned from F1. So i still see a level playing game in tactics. As far as race is concern, RB has enough pace to finish both races 1 & 2 but to win F1 title, they need to support MW. I hope Massa will play his part with devotion.
#222109
I don't know how a team can justify "crashing out" either themselves or a competitor. The teams make money for every WCC point, not for the WDC. I can see swapping your cars around on track (although I disagree with it), you still get the same WCC points. Sure having the WDC is a feather in the cap of any team (so long as you can hold onto him next season and hit up the sponsors for the cashola)... But what happens when it comes out what happened and then nobody will touch you with a ten foot pole and you need to sell your team to some investment firm.
#222145
Nah - In my head I've drawn the conclusion that Vettel is in with a better shot than Webber at the title. I don't care about the statistics. Performance-wise, Vettel is more experienced at leading Grands Prix. Vettel can lead a race from start to finish. I think it would be too risky for Red Bull to throw all their trust in Mark Webber.

However, if Webber is still second behind Vettel in the last few laps at Brazil then I could justify the Red Bulls swapping positions. But if Mark Webber wants to backed by Red Bull he needs to be on pole and Vettel needs to give him space at the first corner.

So basically he needs to lead the Brazillian Grand Prix without any extra help from Vettel, and prove that he can do it, in order to justify Seb's help in Abu Dhabi.

In the below news article Webber shows an arrogant side to him that I have never seen before:
http://www.perthnow.com.au/sport/motor-sport/mark-webber-i-dont-even-know-sebastian-vettel/story-e6frg26l-1225918307364
AUSTRALIAN Formula one star Mark Webber has lifted the lid on world sport's most intriguing relationship by making the extraordinary claim that he does not even know his controversial Red Bull Racing teammate Sebastian Vettel.

In an exclusive interview with The Daily Telegraph on the eve of the Italian Grand Prix at Monza, Webber gave an ice-cold account of his relationship with Vettel, describing the 23-year-old German whiz kid as "no mate".

Please see bottom for video.

"We don't hang out," Webber said. "We work for the team and we work professionally. We have a big age difference so we didn't have much in common even before we began racing each other at this level.

"I would say he is not a bad guy but I don't know him particularly well.

"I don't know him at all away from the racetrack."

Webber and Vettel created headlines around the world earlier this year when the Aussie screamed "Not bad for a No. 2 driver" after winning against the odds when the team had secretly pinched his superior front wing and placed it on the German's car to give Vettel a better chance of victory.


Speaking before the battle resumes today with qualifying at Monza, Webber admitted he feared the team was favouring the kid who has already been compared to Formula One great Michael Schumacher.

Webber declared yesterday he was the team's No. 1 driver and, in a veiled shot at Vettel, warned the new kid on the block could be out of a job if he failed to live up to his potential. "If you get creamed by your teammate constantly then you won't be in this business long," Webber said.

"The team wants to have guys driving at the same level.

"He had a tough weekend last race. Any teammate is your first comparison and first benchmark."

Webber also questioned Vettel's reputation and admitted the hype about his teammate had fuelled his desire to win the world championship, which is now a live possibility with the Aussie trailing leader Lewis Hamilton by just three points with six races remaining.

Against the odds, Webber has clearly outperformed his young teammate who has speed but a penchant for taking extreme risks, which have more often than not led to costly errors.

"Well, at this stage of my career and when you get somebody who is arguably or supposed to be world class on paper - in some people's eyes - you have to be on top of your game so you don't get steamrolled," Webber said. "You can be the No. 2 driver after a couple of races very easily. You have to be in there and it is a serious sport protecting your corner. I feel sensational in the team right now and I have rarely felt like a No. 2.

"I have had times when I have felt like I was a No. 2 and I reckon Seb has had times where he says, 'Oh, I am No. 2 now'.

"I feel like I am No. 1 at the moment, but it ebbs and flows."

Webber does not know - or care - if he is the bad guy in the controversial relationship but admits he has had a staunch rivalry with the superstar in the making.

"He is the new kid on the block and pulling trees up to a point," Webber said. "It was inevitable that he would become my rival. If it is not me, then it will be Lewis or Jenson Button.

"Rivals in sport, well, that is what it is all about and it happens to be me at the moment.

"The rivalry has been pretty decent and it has been great for me to lift the bar to another notch.

"I have been doing better on my side and I can't control what he is doing.

"We sit across from each other at team meetings, but a large degree of our rivalry is natural.

"If your teammate is doing better than you, or is constantly quicker than you week in and week out, you have to work out why he is doing that because he has the same equipment.

"That is an incredible challenge."

With the incident left in his all-conquering dust, Webber played down the part-swapping fiasco and now with Vettel all out of the championship race, is confident his team will be putting all its resources behind what would be Australia's first Formula One championship win in 30 years.

"It was an exceptional circumstance where the team only had one component," Webber said.

"Up until then they have had enough to prepare things to the same specification.

"I think the cars will be prepared identical in future, but the tactics might change at some stage."

Having overcome the challenge presented by Vettel, Webber, 33, now has his dogged sights set on former world champion Hamilton, starting with another against-the-odds win at Monza tomorrow night.

"Lewis is for sure I think one of the main guys," Webber said.

"If you finish ahead of Lewis in the championship you are going to have a good championship. We need to fight against McLaren as best we can. It's going to be great for the fans to watch. I'm looking forward to the challenge."

The Red Bulls will be giving away straight line speed to both McLaren and Ferrari. Team boss Christian Horner says they will be underdogs at the fast Monza circuit, which he has described as Red Bull's weakest track on the calendar.

But Webber said: "I think we can still do well at Monza."


I really don't want Webber to get all cocky after he wins a WDC and claim how he has won the title and the team has done nothing to support him....
#222146
I really don't want Webber to get all cocky after he wins a WDC and claim how he has won the title and the team has done nothing to support him..

Proof is in the pudding so to speak. I for one have not seen one episode of the team fawning over Webber like they do Vettel when he tossed a potential race win or podium :yes::banghead: !
#222147
Interesting viewpoint from Gerhard Berger:
http://www.motorsport.com/news/article.asp?ID=392412&FS=F1
Berger sure Red Bull will not deploy team orders
Racing series F1
Date 2010-10-26
By Motorsport.com/GMM


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Gerhard Berger is quite sure Red Bull Racing will not impose teams orders in its final push for the 2010 drivers' title.

After Sebastian Vettel and Mark Webber retired from the recent Korean Grand Prix, Ferrari's Fernando Alonso drove into a clear points lead.

The situation has sparked speculation that Red Bull must now throw its full weight behind Australian Webber, who has the higher points tally, with young German Vettel to take a reluctant subordinate role.

But Berger, former co-owner of the energy drink company's second team Toro Rosso and a close friend of Dietrich Mateschitz, does not think Red Bull will take that approach.

"Some of the teams, like Williams or McLaren, operate as a business. In this way it makes sense for them to have a team strategy in order to maximise their championship position," said the Austrian, referring to F1's system of revenue distribution.

"But Red Bull has a very different approach, using Formula One as a sporting platform to boost its product," Berger told Austrian television Servus TV.

"And from the sporting approach, the best man wins," he insisted.

Berger acknowledged the 'grey area' of team orders in Formula One, such as Ferrari's escape from the FIA hearing this year with a mere $100,000 fine but 7 additional points for Fernando Alonso.

"Forget grey areas, we're thinking of morality," he continued.

"If I know Dietrich Mateschitz, there is no question about the approach. And I think the fans will be grateful. It's sport.

"It's not sport however if all year you're just making tactical moves," insisted Berger.

#222269
Vettel is 14 points behind Webber, some might say that isnt an impossible gap to bridge in two races. If Vetttel wins the next two races from Mark in second place they will be on equal points.

When you put Vettels 25 points behind Alonso in context to his gap to Webber, it seems very unlikley Vettel can win the WDC.

Add to that Button and Massa supporting their team mates, it will be even harder for either RB driver to score a win.

Red Bull cant risk waiting until Abu Dabi to support either driver, they need to support Webber in Brazil
#222277
And to add to this.....if Vettel had of won yesterday and was now leading by 11 points over Webber (with Alonso 7 points behind)....then Webber would be under strict instructions to support Vettel....of that I am sure.


could not have hit the nail on the head any squarer, well said
Horner is so transparent in his statements wish he would just say he favors vettel no matter how well mark is doing
Horner u r a TOOL
#222282
I don't think Red Bull favour Vettel, but they just don't do a good job of proving it. :rolleyes:


Sorry Azza, I disagree.

Even with Mark ahead in the WDC, Red Bull did their best to "promote" Vettel with a pit strategy to get him in front of Webber and at Silverstone they absolutely demonstrated their preference for Vettel with the "wing saga".

Give me one example this year where they have favoured Mark over Vettel?

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