FORUMula1.com - F1 Forum

[Troyron]

The bad news for McLaren is that in order for your team to be true to their campaign of equal treatment for both drivers, Button should still get a fair shot at Victory in Brazil. He is 42 points behind with 50 still up for grabs.

A long shot, but still a possibility. If he moves over for Hamilton in Brazil then you guys are no better than Ferrari.

Actually it makes McLaren look worse than Ferrari. You will be hypocrites!

Thats what Im getting at. Lets see if anyone will change now as its the best for their team.

[What's Burning?]

The bad news for McLaren is that in order for your team to be true to their campaign of equal treatment for both drivers, Button should still get a fair shot at Victory in Brazil. He is 42 points behind with 50 still up for grabs.

A long shot, but still a possibility. If he moves over for Hamilton in Brazil then you guys are no better than Ferrari.

Actually it makes McLaren look worse than Ferrari. You will be hypocrites!

Thats what Im getting at. Lets see if anyone will change now as its the best for their team.

The scenario you're proposing is that Button is leading the race with 80% of the race distance done, with Hamilton following behind him in second, then a hamfisted Button allowing Hamilton to get by him after a series of peculiar messages from his race engineer.

Ok, got it, check. Let's wait till after Brazil to see if it occurs.

[f1ea]

The bad news for McLaren is that in order for your team to be true to their campaign of equal treatment for both drivers, Button should still get a fair shot at Victory in Brazil. He is 42 points behind with 50 still up for grabs.

A long shot, but still a possibility. If he moves over for Hamilton in Brazil then you guys are no better than Ferrari.

Actually it makes McLaren look worse than Ferrari. You will be hypocrites!

Thats what Im getting at. Lets see if anyone will change now as its the best for their team.

The scenario you're proposing is that Button is leading the race with 80% of the race distance done, with Hamilton following behind him in second, then a hamfisted Button allowing Hamilton to get by him after a series of peculiar messages from his race engineer.

Ok, got it, check. Let's wait till after Brazil to see if it occurs.

Exactly. Its unlikely that'll happen. BUT even if it did, everyone knows what will be the stand of the team and the followers: yet another rainpour of sci-fi articles and fan essays explaining the unfallible logic of Mclaren's actions and why they were acceptable by Mclanen's superior moral standards...

To be honest. I dont really care if Mclaren use or not team orders. And I'm sure most people will ignore it eitherway.

[darwin dali]

The bad news for McLaren is that in order for your team to be true to their campaign of equal treatment for both drivers, Button should still get a fair shot at Victory in Brazil. He is 42 points behind with 50 still up for grabs.

A long shot, but still a possibility. If he moves over for Hamilton in Brazil then you guys are no better than Ferrari.

Actually it makes McLaren look worse than Ferrari. You will be hypocrites!

Thats what Im getting at. Lets see if anyone will change now as its the best for their team.

The scenario you're proposing is that Button is leading the race with 80% of the race distance done, with Hamilton following behind him in second, then a hamfisted Button allowing Hamilton to get by him after a series of peculiar messages from his race engineer.

Ok, got it, check. Let's wait till after Brazil to see if it occurs.

The premise (JB leading) won't materialize, so it can't happen.

[What's Burning?]

The bad news for McLaren is that in order for your team to be true to their campaign of equal treatment for both drivers, Button should still get a fair shot at Victory in Brazil. He is 42 points behind with 50 still up for grabs.

A long shot, but still a possibility. If he moves over for Hamilton in Brazil then you guys are no better than Ferrari.

Actually it makes McLaren look worse than Ferrari. You will be hypocrites!

Thats what Im getting at. Lets see if anyone will change now as its the best for their team.

The scenario you're proposing is that Button is leading the race with 80% of the race distance done, with Hamilton following behind him in second, then a hamfisted Button allowing Hamilton to get by him after a series of peculiar messages from his race engineer.

Ok, got it, check. Let's wait till after Brazil to see if it occurs.

The premise (JB leading) won't materialize, so it can't happen.

I always give enough rope.

[Hammer278]

He doesn't even need to be leading....being 2nd or 3rd and Hamilton right behind would make it very interesting. My stand on team orders is, if the driver is not aware before the race starts that he's playing 2nd fiddle that's just not on. In Championship situations such as this, team strategy can come into play for the good of the team. There is an agreement set in place before the drivers get in the cars.

Of course, it goes down to opinion (which is where the rule is so vague). When is it right to employ team 'strategy'? Some of us might say Button is out of it (Button said it himself right after the race)...some might say mathematically. It's like abortion I guess. Very difficult to enforce a strict rule on this one. But I really do not like orders where there wasn't an agreement previously, like David Coulthard having to surrender 2 wins to Mika early in their careers, that was horrible. Or Rubens and Michael for two Austrian races.

[What's Burning?]

Most people don't like team orders, some do, regardless we all accept them to be some degree or other in the sport. It's up to the individual fan to decide when it's too much, when a critical mass of folks decide it's too much is when fines and court dates become a part of the sport.

Last race of a tight championship, people will be more willing to turn a blind eye, unless the order is extreme like having your teammate crash in order to bring out the SC or something like that.

[myownalias]

Regardless of personal opinion, team orders are banned at least until the end of the season regardless of what has gone before. if McLaren order a switch of Jenson and Lewis' positions for no reason than for Lewis to score more points, they will be in breach of the "no team orders" rule. But I can't see McLaren being so obvious about it; they'll make it look like a pit lane mistake, maybe have a problem with replacing a wheel or something similar or simply not allow themselves to be put in that position in the first place!

But that said; given that Ferrari got away with team orders because they cited McLaren team orders in Istanbul as defence; the no team orders rule is null and void this season!

[Troyron]

Some of us might say Button is out of it (Button said it himself right after the race)...some might say mathematically. It's like abortion I guess. Very difficult to enforce a strict rule on this one. But I really do not like orders where there wasn't an agreement previously

So in your opinion....

BEFORE THE RACE IN THE OFFICE:
Button, if you are a head of Hamilton. You should let him go pass. No matter if it is on lap 2 or 56, if you see the silver car behind you, you are to act like you are blue flagged.

DURING THE RACE OVER THE RADIO:
Massa, you have Alonso behind you. You need to let him pass.


PLEASE ANSWER THIS:
Why is it okay to do the scenario with Button and Hamilton and not the other?

In both cases, the audience (us) are robbed for racing. Is it okay just because the rules say so, if thats the case remember that the FIA are looking into that rule and most likely will remove it. Or maybe it is because we hear over the radio and therefore stirs up more emotions.

[myownalias]

Team orders are team orders regardless of when they were handed down! But if it happened behind closed doors and closed radio channels, at least it gives the impression that that it's racing, maybe Button making a slight mistake going into turn one, going slightly wide allowing Hamilton to pass? In reality over the years team orders have taken place and nobody was any the wiser as it was done in such a way that it looks like part of the race, most people were up in arms with Ferrari for the way they implemented the order!

[Robert12010]

it would make for an intresting race if those scenarios came up, and would be intresting what mclaren do if the situation arises!, would my favourite team who i support dearly break the rules to help lewis?, i would like to think not!

[vaptin]

it would make for an intresting race if those scenarios came up, and would be intresting what mclaren do if the situation arises!, would my favourite team who i support dearly break the rules to help lewis?, i would like to think not!

Err, did you not see the Australian Grand Prix last year?

[Robert12010]

it would make for an intresting race if those scenarios came up, and would be intresting what mclaren do if the situation arises!, would my favourite team who i support dearly break the rules to help lewis?, i would like to think not!

Err, did you not see the Australian Grand Prix last year?

well yes i did and what dave ryan did was totally wrong! poor old lewis got made to look like a criminal !

[myownalias]

well yes i did and what dave ryan did was totally wrong! poor old lewis got made to look like a criminal !

Basically you are saying that Lewis Hamilton does not have a mind of his own? Despite what Dave Ryan instructed Lewis to do; Lewis was in on the lie, GUILTY AS CHARGED!!!

[bud]

Pfff And Massa's excuse to the German stewards wasnt also a lie?