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[What's Burning?]

And his luckiest points score being Germany, if not for that his lead would only be 4 points right now. And with only 2 races left that kind of luck might be evened out at Redbull or McLaren by a team mate pulling aside

No luck there. Solid team work, that's all...

BTW
Who's to say RB AND Mclaren won't do any little bit of teamwork in the remaining races?
They better not though. Because they keep saying they don't. So, i've got my eye on them little buggers

Yes because the same conclusions can be drawn with two races to go as with eight races to go.

[f1ea]

Im Sure at the last race it will happen at Redbull and McLaren if need be. Though they wont need an order over the radio to do it. It would be more like how Kimi did it for Massa in 08.

Well... that's sorta the same thing. To the eyes of the rule: round #1 and round #19 have the same value. What the teams can do is save face and do it 'proffessionaly', but it will still be the same. And that's the annoying thing about the rule.

If anybody wishes Mclaren well, they'd be ok with understanding Lewis needs to be ahead of Jenson.
People would only complain for the ammount of babbling they've done... but if they actually do some strategy like that, it'll just be a good done job.

[bud]

Im Sure at the last race it will happen at Redbull and McLaren if need be. Though they wont need an order over the radio to do it. It would be more like how Kimi did it for Massa in 08.

Well... that's sorta the same thing. To the eyes of the rule: round #1 and round #19 have the same value.

thats where you and a few others just...dont...get it... Round 1 everyone on the grid has the same chance of winning the title. Its unfair to impose team orders on a driver when both in the team can still claim the title. Round 19 its clear to some who can take the title so team mates helping out the other is not so bad in a sporting sense.

[f1ea]

Well... that's sorta the same thing. To the eyes of the rule: round #1 and round #19 have the same value.

thats where you and a few others just...dont...get it... Round 1 everyone on the grid has the same chance of winning the title. Its unfair to impose team orders on a driver when both in the team can still claim the title. Round 19 its clear to some who can take the title so team mates helping out the other is not so bad in a sporting sense.

Apparently neither does the rule (get it). because the rule does not state under what situations it is 'reasonable' or 'fair'.
To be honest... its just one big openly exploitable loophole that everyone uses to their advantage at their moment of choice.

[Hammer278]

F1ea's got a point. The rule allows for a team to blatantly exploit 1 of their drivers in favour of another. It isn't actually illegal.

The other 2 top teams however, have the sportsmanship and racing breed to not exploit that rule even though it is a loophole ready to be exploited. Which is why I'm a fan of one of these teams.

[What's Burning?]

Being harsh, it's the analogy of aborting a fetus in the 2nd month, versus aborting it in the 8th month.

No it's not the same thing.

[scotty]

EDIT - wrong thread, this thread isn't about team orders...

[f1ea]

Being harsh, it's the analogy of aborting a fetus in the 2nd month, versus aborting it in the 8th month.

No it's not the same thing.

Life starts upon fertilisation. So, its always wrong. And i'm speaking from a purely non-religious approach.

But in racing, conditions change. Situations are different at every race. And the fans, press and teams like to choose the moment at which they find team orders acceptable. Turns out, surprise surprise! not everybody agrees about when/how it is aceptable. Specially when other teams use the 'commodity' to their benefit at their time of choice.

The other 2 top teams however, have the sportsmanship and racing breed to not exploit that rule even though it is a loophole ready to be exploited. Which is why I'm a fan of one of these teams.

That's another thing. Although they DO exploit it. At their time of choice. They simply havent had a situation (this yr) under which something like that made any sense... so why do it?

TODAY things look as if Mclaren need to help Lewis and Red Bull to be behind Webber. Maybe RB can be a bit 50/50 considering wins are very much possible for both their drivers... its not so clear cut for RB though. Maybe they can afford a bit more equality. But mclaren need to go 100% to benefit Lewis, whether they need to bring Smedley in or think of something else......

[Hammer278]

It would make sense to back Lewis now IF Jenson agrees off the track to begin with. I wouldn't agree with McLaren to tell Jenson to back down while he's racing Lewis on track. That would show there was no agreement beforehand and the driver is being forced to yield, which is very unfair.

If Ferrari had a pre determined order of play at Germany and Massa had admitted that he had willingly agreed to play 2nd fiddle before the race had even started, I think majority of the 'haters' (me included) would not have much to say. Right now, we can see the extra 7 points given by Massa to Alonso look so much more precious. I am not against team 'strategy' but team orders over the radio is something else entirely.

And in McLarens case now, I think they should just keep doing what they are doing. They don't have that great a chance anyway, their car isn't on par with the other two. If results come their way, so be it, if not, 2011 guys...

[What's Burning?]

I can't stress the fact enough that I'd rather have no team orders pulling the strings for optimum results. We know that's not the case and all team will and have employed orders or predetermined tactics or whatever you call it.

But to not beleaguer the point since we'll never see eye to eye on this, you believe in black and white on this issue, and I believe in shades of gray.

BTW, Jensen has already agreed to help stating that his chances are illogical at this point. Very sporting of him.

[hounddub]

For Vettel to win he win need to win both races, Webber to come second in both races and Alonso (hypothetically) to be worse than 3rd in both races. That's just not going to happen is it!

That would put the Red Bulls on equal points with Vettel winning on a count back. But Vettel is never going to make 25 points on Alonso without a DNF.

Me thinks that Vettel might just have to be playing the support role now.

Props to Fernando....since his DNF at Silverstone he has scored 133 points out of a possible 175 (with one DNF at Spa)! ........ Amazing

[FRAFPDD]

"to beat fernando in 2010" wow, didnt truly believe the cockiness of his fans could go up... its far from over, 10 point lead two races left and a pacemaker for an engine. should i even bother mentioning how many of his wins hes inherited?

[Hammer278]

I can't stress the fact enough that I'd rather have no team orders pulling the strings for optimum results. We know that's not the case and all team will and have employed orders or predetermined tactics or whatever you call it.

But to not beleaguer the point since we'll never see eye to eye on this, you believe in black and white on this issue, and I believe in shades of gray.

BTW, Jensen has already agreed to help stating that his chances are illogical at this point. Very sporting of him.

Link please?

[What's Burning?]

a pacemaker for an engine

[madbrad]

But if a driver does this support mode of his own volition, or the drivers agreed to this earlier when neither was ahead, it's not team orders. Remember there's no prohibition on driver agreements.