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[vaptin]

I'm really not sure why people think Ferrari as a team made it obvious on purpose, it was only because Massa wanted the whole world to see it,

No, it wasn't fine, it seemed to be fine before the 01 rule before the FIA made a kneejerk.

[What's Burning?]

I'm really not sure why people think Ferrari as a team made it obvious on purpose, it was only because Massa wanted the whole world to see it,

No, it wasn't fine, it seemed to be fine before the 01 rule before the FIA made a kneejerk.

So Ferrari has managed to make a mockery of the fans by blatantly breaking a rule that they thought was fine, now making a mockery of the fans by blatantly breaking a rule they didn't think was fine...

[vaptin]

I'm really not sure why people think Ferrari as a team made it obvious on purpose, it was only because Massa wanted the whole world to see it,

No, it wasn't fine, it seemed to be fine before the 01 rule before the FIA made a kneejerk.

So Ferrari has managed to make a mockery of the fans by blatantly breaking a rule that they thought was fine, now making a mockery of the fans by blatantly breaking a rule they didn't think was fine...

They broke the first rule (which I think was fine), were punished for it, why the need to the new one?

[What's Burning?]

I'm really not sure why people think Ferrari as a team made it obvious on purpose, it was only because Massa wanted the whole world to see it,

No, it wasn't fine, it seemed to be fine before the 01 rule before the FIA made a kneejerk.

So Ferrari has managed to make a mockery of the fans by blatantly breaking a rule that they thought was fine, now making a mockery of the fans by blatantly breaking a rule they didn't think was fine...

They broke the first rule (which I think was fine), were punished for it, why the need to the new one?

Little late to be discussing this now though yes?

[vaptin]

I'm really not sure why people think Ferrari as a team made it obvious on purpose, it was only because Massa wanted the whole world to see it,

No, it wasn't fine, it seemed to be fine before the 01 rule before the FIA made a kneejerk.

So Ferrari has managed to make a mockery of the fans by blatantly breaking a rule that they thought was fine, now making a mockery of the fans by blatantly breaking a rule they didn't think was fine...

They broke the first rule (which I think was fine), were punished for it, why the need to the new one?

Little late to be discussing this now though yes?

True we've done it before on here, unless you mean changing the rule to the current version is irrelevant as its old, what I've argued for on here was to change back to the 01 rule for team orders.

[What's Burning?]

I'm really not sure why people think Ferrari as a team made it obvious on purpose, it was only because Massa wanted the whole world to see it,

No, it wasn't fine, it seemed to be fine before the 01 rule before the FIA made a kneejerk.

So Ferrari has managed to make a mockery of the fans by blatantly breaking a rule that they thought was fine, now making a mockery of the fans by blatantly breaking a rule they didn't think was fine...

They broke the first rule (which I think was fine), were punished for it, why the need to the new one?

Little late to be discussing this now though yes?

True we've done it before on here, unless you mean changing the rule to the current version is irrelevant as its old, what I've argued for on here was to change back to the 01 rule for team orders.

Which is fine by me, as long as it clearly covers all facets and potential situations, and clearly outlines the punishments. What I meant by a little late is that if Ferrari felt so strongly against that rule why protest so loudly now.

[vaptin]

Well, the crux of it is, they don't really care about the rue normally as its easy to get around, only this time Ferrari had to work a lot harder to get around it, but that they did.

[racechick]

Either way the season is winding down...and if by some miracle Jenson ends up in front of Lewis (as just happened), I'm sure the team will find some way of slowing him down without it being as obvious as Ferrari's screw up. Maybe they'll leave him out on bad tires or something....oh....uh...hmm.

Hey Bill , they just had two chances in the last race to switch places far more convincingly thanFerrari did, and guess what....they didnt do it!

exhibit A:
exhibit B:

exhibit ABCDEFGHIJKLMNOPQRSTUVWXYZ.
Just thought id get the bullpoo overwith first,

Exhibit C:

He'd already met Ferrari management with his 'team' after not having Massa moved aside in Australia

BS. Because you dont know. No idea what they spoke about.

Now Exhibit C is interesting. No I dont konw the exact words of the conversation but it dosnt take a genious to work out the content of that conversation. And woe and behold the next time the same scenario presents itself a very pissed of Massa and engineer are duly ordered aside.

[f1ea]

exhibit ABCDEFGHIJKLMNOPQRSTUVWXYZ.
Just thought id get the bullpoo overwith first,

Ha! There's an extra letter in spanish: Ñ
so i'd win. but (because i'm nice) I'll let you win this time...

[myownalias]

@Spankyham - I don't have a personal vendetta against Ferrari; it's true that I do not like Ferrari for of my own reasons; coming from their actions past and present; but that's nether here nor there. I would feel the same about any team that blatantly broke the rules in such a way. Ferrari's actions in Germany were obvious to everyone; even without the radio communications; it was immediately obvious what had taken place. In contrast; McLaren's actions in Japan (if it was team orders) were not obvious; we can speculate what happened but nothing can be assumed unlike the Ferrari incident in Germany. When a driver suddenly slows after keeping his team mate behind for lap after lap then resumes his previous pace after being passed; it's pretty obvious to even an casual fan.

[spankyham]

@Spankyham - I don't have a personal vendetta against Ferrari; it's true that I do not like Ferrari for of my own reasons;

Pretty much says it all

[spankyham]

Now Exhibit C is interesting. No I dont konw the exact words of the conversation but it dosnt take a genious to work out the content of that conversation. And woe and behold the next time the same scenario presents itself a very pissed of Massa and engineer are duly ordered aside.

Someone from Jenson's management met someone from McLaren management after Susuka. Is it likewise obvious that the meeting was about McLaren Team Orders to keep Jenson out on old/worn tyres? Anything Jenson says or does complaining about tyres or tyre strategy over the next 10 races will be proof?

You seem very willing to provide your own interpretation on meetings and discussions when, by your own admission, you have absolutely no idea what was discussed or what the meeting was about. But perhaps you're right, why on earth would a team driver management meet with a team??? One things for certain, they never in a blue moon would have talked about his contract, that whole "renewing it thing" they announced 2 months later was probably to deliberately discredit your interpretation of the meeting's purpose

[What's Burning?]

Spanky, if you stare at this long enough, you'll convince yourself it's moving.

[myownalias]

@Spankyham - I don't have a personal vendetta against Ferrari; it's true that I do not like Ferrari for of my own reasons;

Pretty much says it all

Does it? Because I don't like Ferrari doesn't make my views any less valid, I can still be objective! Because Ferrari don't agree with the rules; doesn't mean that they don't have to abide by them, same goes for any other team, but if it's less obviously implemented, it doesn't do as much (if any) damage to the reputation of the sport. Nearly every time F1 hits the headlines these days it's for the wrong reasons; and you can not deny Ferrari have been involved in many of the recent scandals in one way or another!

[texasmr2]

A fickle sport indeed .