FORUMula1.com - F1 Forum

[darwin dali]

It had been feared that Hamilton may have faced another five-place grid penalty at Korea after his gearbox issue at Suzuka but Whitmarsh says this will definitely not happen.

"Finally, to clarify, following his gearbox issue in Suzuka, Lewis will not face a second successive five-place grid penalty this weekend. The gearbox regulations were framed to ensure teams weren't penalised twice for the same gearbox issue, so Lewis will go into the weekend without risk of further penalty."


His replaced gearbox was damaged from the shunt in Singapore. This one where he lost 3rd gear during the Japanese GP didn't suffer from a hard impact caused by an accident - it was a brand new one. So, how could this be the same gearbox issue?

[f1ea]

its something about the "replacement" gearbox. It needs to finish only one race.

I thought it could have been like that (no penalty) had the gearbox/car not finished Japan. But since it finished i thought he was getting shafted for Korea as he was going to have change the box... beats me

[myownalias]

Doesn't the rule only apply if the gearbox is replaced during the race weekend? So if McLaren replace the gearbox before the race weekend; it's penalty free.

Is that any limit on how many gearboxes a team may use per season?

[darwin dali]

Doesn't the rule only apply if the gearbox is replaced during the race weekend? So if McLaren replace the gearbox before the race weekend; it's penalty free.

Is that any limit on how many gearboxes a team may use per season?

From the horse's mouth:


Gearboxes
In a bid to further improve reliability and cut costs, gearboxes must now last for four consecutive events. As with engines, an event comprises final practice, qualifying and the race. Every unscheduled gearbox change will require the relevant driver to drop five places on the grid at that meeting. If a driver fails to finish a race, he may start the next meeting with a new gearbox without incurring a penalty.

[myownalias]

Doesn't the rule only apply if the gearbox is replaced during the race weekend? So if McLaren replace the gearbox before the race weekend; it's penalty free.

Is that any limit on how many gearboxes a team may use per season?

From the horse's mouth:

Gearboxes
In a bid to further improve reliability and cut costs, gearboxes must now last for four consecutive events. As with engines, an event comprises final practice, qualifying and the race. Every unscheduled gearbox change will require the relevant driver to drop five places on the grid at that meeting. If a driver fails to finish a race, he may start the next meeting with a new gearbox without incurring a penalty.

Then Mr. Whitmarsh could well in be for a shock when Lewis starts from 5th or lower... I agree that he appears to be talking out of his posterior.

[f1ea]

From the horse's mouth:
If a driver fails to finish a race, he may start the next meeting with a new gearbox without incurring a penalty.

That's what the horse had told me as well. And i believed him.
But it seems it was the lamb who was right.

[What's Burning?]

Or maybe they've saved up a gear box change from a recent DNF. In this case, he can change a whole lot of gearboxes.

[Ineluke]

No penalty..

Q: You lost third gear just as you were closing down on a podium finish - how did you adapt your driving style to cope without first, second and third gears?
LH: It wasn’t easy at a track like Suzuka, because it’s such a flowing circuit - you need all the traction you can to keep your momentum up. But, fortunately, because it’s quite a fast track, you’re not in the lower gears for too much of the lap. You need the traction from the low gears out of the hairpin and the chicane, but you’re also missing it a lot out of the second Degner, where you need a lower gear to get the car planted properly. I was fortunate on Sunday, because I’d already established quite a big lead over the sixth-placed car, so I didn’t lose too much ground and could hold onto fifth. The good news is that the rules permit us to change the gearbox for Korea without getting another grid penalty.

[darwin dali]

No penalty..

Q: You lost third gear just as you were closing down on a podium finish - how did you adapt your driving style to cope without first, second and third gears?
LH: It wasn’t easy at a track like Suzuka, because it’s such a flowing circuit - you need all the traction you can to keep your momentum up. But, fortunately, because it’s quite a fast track, you’re not in the lower gears for too much of the lap. You need the traction from the low gears out of the hairpin and the chicane, but you’re also missing it a lot out of the second Degner, where you need a lower gear to get the car planted properly. I was fortunate on Sunday, because I’d already established quite a big lead over the sixth-placed car, so I didn’t lose too much ground and could hold onto fifth. The good news is that the rules permit us to change the gearbox for Korea without getting another grid penalty.

That's his and Whitmarsh's word, but I want to see the reg that spells it out - so far, what I've seen would speak against their interpretation...

[scotty]

I don't care enough to go onto the official site and sift through the rules, but the quote i originally read was that if the drivers use a replacement gearbox, then said gearbox "will only be required to complete the remainder of the Event in question".

[racechick]

I was worried about this. I thought he'd get another penalty but he doesnt:-
'The rules allow a new gearbox to be fitted after an unexpected change. Teams are also allowed to change gearboxes, which have to last for four events,at the race following a retirement.'
So there we are.
The reason they didnt change lewis' gearbox after Singapore as matter of course was because it would have left him with one gearbox for the last four races. Damage emerged that had not initially shown up on tests. Whitmarsh " There was an over-rotation of the differential and no outward signs of it. It looked fine in the tests".

Not sure what it all means ...except he doesnt get another penalty, so thats good

[darwin dali]

28.6 For the purposes of this Article only, an Event will be deemed to comprise P3, the qualifying practice session and the race.
a) Each driver may use no more than one gearbox for four consecutive Events in which his team competes. Should a driver use a replacement gearbox he will drop five places on the starting grid at that Event and an additional five places each time a further gearbox is used. Any replacement gearbox must be fitted with the same gear ratios that were declared under d) below and will only be required to complete the remainder of the Event in question. Any change to the gear ratios declared under d) below will incur a further five grid place penalty. In either case a new four race sequence may start at the following Event.
Unless the driver fails to finish the race (see below) the gearbox fitted to the car at the end of the Event must remain in it for three further Events.Any driver who failed to finish the race at the first, second or third of the four Events for reasons which the technical delegate accepts as being beyond the control of the team or driver, may start the following Event with a different gearbox without a penalty being incurred.
A gearbox will be deemed to have been used once the car's timing transponder has shown that it has left the pit lane.
b) If a driver is replaced after the first, second or third of a four Event period, having finished the first, second or third Events, the replacement driver must use the gearbox which the original driver had been using.
c) After consultation with the relevant team the FIA will attach seals to each gearbox in order to ensure that no moving parts, other than those specifically permitted under d) below, can be rebuilt or replaced.
d) At each Event seals may be broken once, under supervision and at any time prior to the second day of practice, for the sole purpose of changing gear ratios and dog rings (excluding final drives or reduction gears). Competitors must inform the FIA technical delegate which ratios they intend to fit no later than two hours after the end of P2.
Gear ratios and dog rings (excluding final drives or reduction gears) may also be changed under supervision for others of identical specification at any time during an Event provided the FIA technical delegate is satisfied there is evident physical damage to the parts in question and that such changes are not being carried out on a systematic basis.
e) Other than under d) above, a replacement gearbox will also be deemed to have been used if any of the FIA seals are damaged or removed from the original gearbox after it has been used for the first time.


Rather ambiguous and contradictory (see italicized parts).

[scotty]

It seems to me that as it was a replacement gearbox in the first place then there'll be no further action, as in your first italicised section.

[Bubbie]

This is retarded. Why the hell are there rules like this in the first place - cost cutting? I want to see racing out on the track. Not rules lawyering and cars dropping on the grid or trying to limp around because they don't want to take a penalty.

[spankyham]

This is retarded. Why the hell are there rules like this in the first place - cost cutting? I want to see racing out on the track. Not rules lawyering and cars dropping on the grid or trying to limp around because they don't want to take a penalty.

Purely a cost cutting exercise to help keep the mobile chicanes running so we can employ blue flag wavers.

I know the rule sounds convoluted, but I there will be no penalty for Lewis. His gearbox in Susuka was a "replacement" gearbox. The gearbox replaced was due to be changed at Korea, (Susuka was it's fourth race).

I know this because Felipe also used a new gearbox in Susuka, and yet he "replaced" his in Singapore. It is just that Susuka was also a scheduled change for Felipe.

(....... or perhaps this is another insidious plan by Spanky to lull everyone into a false sense of security ...... thinks, you really are an evil one Spanky )

Forza Ferrari