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[myownalias]

So Lewis broke two gearboxes in 1 weekend? How did he survive 2 whole years before this without breaking a single gearbox?

Once again, in cars today it is very difficult to break a car by your driving style unless you have a collision. If you are doing something which contributes to breaking the car, the engineers are all equipped with the necessary info and telemetry, you can be sure they'd see a pattern and tell the driver to cut it out.

No; one gearbox was broken with the collision with Mark Webber in Singapore; my point is that Lewis is harder on the car than Jenson and therefore is more likely to suffer failures of the part. I believe that even if the engineers told Lewis to adjust his driving style, he wouldn't do it; it's the same for Jenson, he's not an all out, power-sliding aggressive driver like Lewis and never will be; a person's driving style is hard to change; asking a driver to change his style will almost certainly mean a performance drop off.

[Hammer278]

Okay. Let's say Lewis is more prone to breaking his car. In terms of qualifying head to heads and race finishes head to head (both cars finish the race), I believe Lewis has the advantage? Meaning he has been the quicker guy in the team this year.

He isn't the only one with this style now is he? I believe Fernando Alonso, even Kamui Kobayashi have an aggressive, all out style where they prefer power sliding and oversteer compared to later braking and understeer.

To maintain, it's the job of the team to supply the cars that can take the necessary beating. Ferrari has, why can't McLaren?

[f1ea]

So Lewis broke two gearboxes in 1 weekend? How did he survive 2 whole years before this without breaking a single gearbox?

Once again, in cars today it is very difficult to break a car by your driving style unless you have a collision. If you are doing something which contributes to breaking the car, the engineers are all equipped with the necessary info and telemetry, you can be sure they'd see a pattern and tell the driver to cut it out.

No; one gearbox was broken with the collision with Mark Webber in Singapore; my point is that Lewis is harder on the car than Jenson and therefore is more likely to suffer failures of the part. I believe that even if the engineers told Lewis to adjust his driving style, he wouldn't do it; it's the same for Jenson, he's not an all out, power-sliding aggressive driver like Lewis and never will be; a person's driving style is hard to change; asking a driver to change his style will almost certainly mean a performance drop off.

You can even tell by the messages they get sent from the pit... Jenson's messages have been "ok, Jenson push"
Lewis' messages: "ok, Lewis... be... careful"
Alonso's messages are ussulay in a calming voice...

The team knows what they have in hand. All approaches work. They just have to get the best out of who they are working with.

[vaptin]

Okay. Let's say Lewis is more prone to breaking his car. In terms of qualifying head to heads and race finishes head to head (both cars finish the race), I believe Lewis has the advantage? Meaning he has been the quicker guy in the team this year.

He isn't the only one with this style now is he? I believe Fernando Alonso, even Kamui Kobayashi have an aggressive, all out style where they prefer power sliding and oversteer compared to later braking and understeer.

To maintain, it's the job of the team to supply the cars that can take the necessary beating. Ferrari has, why can't McLaren?

The Ferrari's probably the most reliable car this season, also note that Massa hasn't had any reliability problems (I think) this year which brings us back down to driving style again.

Whilst the team should provide a reliable car, the driver cant just bank on that,

Anyway, Alonso's broken that Ferrari plenty of times.

[Hammer278]

If the driver can't bank on a reliable car, what does he bank on? Going slower??

[bud]

If the driver can't bank on a reliable car, what does he bank on? Going slower??

Lewis has had one, he should ask Kimi about his 2005 car for an unreliable car.

[vaptin]

If the driver can't bank on a reliable car, what does he bank on? Going slower??

He has to work around it? Yeah he should ask his team to produce a reliable one, but drivers "go slower" in a sense all the time, like "save fuel", or "look after the engine", "adjust your brake bias or go easier on the brakes".

A driver can't rely on unlimited grip, so he slows down for the corners and in the wet . . see what I mean?

It's better to finish a race than not finish at all, of course sometimes its hard to balance finishing higher v bringing the car home.

[Hammer278]

Bud: Again, you're comparing the current McLaren to the 2005 car. That too, a car which failed miserably in reliability to the 2005 Renault.

Let's draw parralel comparisons, McLaren 2010 compared to Ferrari/Redbull 2010. Who wins/loses?

Taking each year McLaren were challenging for the WDC and comparing them to their main competitors in the same year, McLaren almost always loses out. This is what I've been trying to get at.

[bud]

Redbulls had by far the worst reliability out of the top 3 teams infact if it wasn't for that, this season would be boring! I'd say even Ferrari has had more mechanical failure than McLaren this season.
Reliabilty didn't cost Lewis in monza or Singapore!

[f1ea]

Taking each year McLaren were challenging for the WDC and comparing them to their main competitors in the same year, McLaren almost always loses out. This is what I've been trying to get at.

[Hammer278]

Taking each year McLaren were challenging for the WDC and comparing them to their main competitors in the same year, McLaren almost always loses out. This is what I've been trying to get at.

Whats so screwed up with what I said?

[Rivers]

As much as I`ve seen McLaren are defiantely not too bad on reliability.
This season we don`t see a lot of broken cars anyway, we used to see them endign race with broken cars a lot more often soem years ago.

Lewis has lost his points in Monza, Singapore, where there were no reliability issues apart from the fact that McLaren haven`t built a tank that can smash trough other cars, and Lewis has lost a good amoutn of points there.

But then as someoen said before, it has all balanced out really.

Vettel has reliabilty issues at the start of year, then he had some "nerve" issues and make some unnecesarry misatkes;
Webber had a poor start to the year really and never looked like to be in the hunt, then he also had his flying lesson at Valencia;
Alonso has been ups and downs all the time aswell;
Button had his problem at Monaco, but that was rather a human error, and in Spa it`s thnx to Vettel;
And now Lewis 3DNF`s in last 5 races, a reliabilty issue and 2 accidents. So all the title contenders have crashed out with or without help from others, they have had their good weekends and their poor ones, reliabilty issues, so now its all as it is.

Whoever gets the most points at the end of the year deserves the title. With all the accidents we`ve had this season has turned out to be rather exciting allowing 5 drivers to be in chance of getting title with 3 races to go...

So its all ok, unfortunate for Lewis, but then you see it all equals. Lewis had trouble free midseason when the Bulls hit each other out, now it has gone the opposite...

Same as for Kimi back in 07 when he had his fair share of bad luck and then at the right moment it all came together to win the title. So I see that its all good as it happens.

Lets wait and see what happens in Korea. It shoudl be that of the Top 5 atleast one should really drop out, McLaren can`t afford any more issues at all, as its already complicated for them.

Ok, I dont want to talk anymore and its over from my side. I hate these long talks and long posts...

[billindenver]

The title should be changed to 'Race Car Unreliability'. When the envelope is pushed, it sometimes rips. That's just the nature of the racing beast even in spec class racing. Things break. If the car breaks more often than ones rivals, perhaps it was under engineered or the driver is unnecessarily rough on it. Taking curbs, rubbing rivals etc all put stress on carbon fiber suspension and chassis components. Bumping wheels, hitting walls, spins...puts stress on gear boxes.

It doesn't seem to me that the McLarens have been any less reliable than their competition. The drivers have been less reliable than their competitors perhaps, but that can't be blamed on the team. Button...I just can't figure that guy out. Sometimes he is blazing fast, other times its like he can't find the throttle with a seeing eye dog and a search/rescue team. Lewis...he can drive...beyond the limits of the car, tires and common sense. He isn't as mistake prone as his first two years though, so he is getting better. But, when the pressure mounts....he still breaks under it. He absolutely gave this season away...again.

The season isn't over though. Vettel can still take out his teammate again. Webber and Alonso could have an epic battle that comes to tears. 75 pts to play for....plenty of room for any of the top 5 to make a move.

[racechick]

The title should be changed to 'Race Car Unreliability'. When the envelope is pushed, it sometimes rips. That's just the nature of the racing beast even in spec class racing. Things break. If the car breaks more often than ones rivals, perhaps it was under engineered or the driver is unnecessarily rough on it. Taking curbs, rubbing rivals etc all put stress on carbon fiber suspension and chassis components. Bumping wheels, hitting walls, spins...puts stress on gear boxes.

It doesn't seem to me that the McLarens have been any less reliable than their competition. The drivers have been less reliable than their competitors perhaps, but that can't be blamed on the team. Button...I just can't figure that guy out. Sometimes he is blazing fast, other times its like he can't find the throttle with a seeing eye dog and a search/rescue team. Lewis...he can drive...beyond the limits of the car, tires and common sense. He isn't as mistake prone as his first two years though, so he is getting better. But, when the pressure mounts....he still breaks under it. He absolutely gave this season away...again.

The season isn't over though. Vettel can still take out his teammate again. Webber and Alonso could have an epic battle that comes to tears. 75 pts to play for....plenty of room for any of the top 5 to make a move.

Alonso and Vettel have made more points costing errors than the rest of the top 5. Jenson the least.

[texasmr2]

Yep .