FORUMula1.com - F1 Forum

[racechick]

Sister? *vaptin blinks and tries to read the post above including quotes again looking for anything at all related to sister*

It was further back.

[vaptin]

Sister? *vaptin blinks and tries to read the post above including quotes again looking for anything at all related to sister*

It was further back.

Ok, was just a little confused, I guess its none of my business anyway as it sounds personal, so I won't look for it.

[Bubbie]

Japanese GP showed in no uncertain terms that team orders at McLaren do not exist.

Button was allowed to hold up Hamilton even though Lewis was right on his butt.

Then later in the race there was plenty of time for the McLarens to not fall back into the Mercedes of MSC. But they still let Button by to have a go at Alonso (which wasn't gonna happen with how far the McLaren was behind).

They can;t even get their drivers to go onto a strategy they want (Whitmarsh was definitely displeased at the decision in the interview pre-race) how do you figure they will get them to give up driving positions on the track?

[f1ea]

Button was allowed to hold up Hamilton even though Lewis was right on his butt.

huh?

[myownalias]

Button was allowed to hold up Hamilton even though Lewis was right on his butt.

But if Whitmarsh ordered Button to let Hamilton pass; it would cost McLaren $100,000 for implementing team orders; and a small team like McLaren can't afford that!

[The_Stig_Money]

Did anybody hear the radio for Mercedes GP to Schumaker?

"We know there are no team orders, but Rosberg knows to be sensible if you pass."

That should be the start of every transmission from the garage

[scotty]

There were no team orders in Suzuka because there wasn't one single driver who they could totally back as having the sole realistic shot at the title. The same as Red Bull in that respect. Rest assured that if this was the case, and the situation permitted, McLaren (and ANY other team for that matter) would have used these tactics to get the driver well in the title chase through a position whereby they could gain maximum possible points per race. It's a useful tactic in pursuit of championship victory in a tight situation such as this year, as Ferrari have displayed in their Hockenheim exploits. Obviously it doesn't make it right though.

[texasmr2]

Why is it so hard for the McLaren brigade to believe that team orders are in place within their team? Ferrari are atleast open and upfront about having them for Alonso, reality check, "testi's testi's is thing on?"

[smokin]

Why is it so hard for the McLaren brigade to believe that team orders are in place within their team? Ferrari are atleast open and upfront about having them for Alonso, reality check, "testi's testi's is thing on?"

Why is it so hard to believe that there are no team orders in place within McLaren? Maybe something like team orders will come into play over the last three races but there's been no evidence of orders so far.

[texasmr2]

Why is it so hard for the McLaren brigade to believe that team orders are in place within their team? Ferrari are atleast open and upfront about having them for Alonso, reality check, "testi's testi's is thing on?"

Why is it so hard to believe that there are no team orders in place within McLaren?

Simply because I have been around the sport long enough to realize that there are .

Maybe something like team orders will come into play over the last three races but there's been no evidence of orders so far.

[spankyham]

Im sorry to hear about your sister, thats unbelievably sad , I cant imagine such a thing.

Thanks

Back to the debate. Thanks for your reply. Im not sure if you deliberately like to wind up or really believe some of the things you say. Lewis was under no threat from Schumacher, he had a big enough cushion, yes he'd slowed and did the right thing by letting Jenson through; but if there are team orders in Mclaren they would have been to make Jenson stay behind; because by taking those extra points Jens still actually slips further back and they might have been very, very useful to lewis in a few weeks time. Had the situation changed(Lewis' car failed/the mercedes inexplicably gained 30 seconds)then would be the time to let Jens through. But come on switch the scenario to Massa and Alonso and reread your team order strategy. I dont think so!!!

Honestly, in my mind I'm certain that McLaren use team orders now and in the past. I just try to give you my reasons why. And, yes, I might have a little "wind up" but I only do that if I can inject a little humour and it can be taken in good spirits.

You believe Lewis was under no threat from the both Mercedes. And Bud made a similar comment so this can respond to you both. At the time his gearbox failed, he was 27.949 seconds ahead of Nico and Michael. There were 14 laps left. McLaren reported Lewis was already loosing over 2 seconds a lap in his speed. Also, it would be reasonable to assume, at that moment that things would only be getting worse, as Lewis was also reporting bad noises. It means that the Merc's could most certainly have caught him before the race end. Honestly, to me, this is a no-brainer, get Jenson past as soon as possible.

Now, let me ask you these simple questions, do you agree that Jenson was faster than Lewis in Japan? (before the gearbox problems?)
I gave the stats earlier, but to refresh your mind -
1) Jenson was faster on the first 3 racing laps (after the SC) He pulled away from Lewis.
2) Jenson was faster on 7 of the 1st 10 racing laps (after the SC)
3) 1) & 2) happened while Jenson was on the Prime tyre and Lewis had the advantage of the softer option tyre!
4) Jenson had the fastest sector times (he was 3rd in S1 and 3rd in S2 - only behind both Bulls, and he was fastest in S3)

If you agree with the above, then don't you also agree that Jenson was totally screwed by the strategy to start on the primes? And, if Lewis didn't have his gearbox problems, wouldn't you agree that starting Jenson on primes would be an enormous help to Lewis given the Bulls were going to qualify ahead of them?

A lot of questions there, sorry about that, but I'm looking forward to your answers

[bud]

Hello?? It was Jenson who WANTED to start on the primes! This is a fact. He has wanted this strategy for a few races now but the team declined his request. Only now in the dying stages of the season where a gamble could have paid off did they agree to his request.

Hell i put 20 bucks on him, he was paying 13 for a win. I thought he was in for a shot for the win. Maybe if there was no SC it would have been better for him.

[spankyham]

Hello?? It was Jenson who WANTED to start on the primes! This is a fact. He has wanted this strategy for a few races now but the team declined his request. Only now in the dying stages of the season where a gamble could have paid off did they agree to his request.

Hell i put 20 bucks on him, he was paying 13 for a win. I thought he was in for a shot for the win. Maybe if there was no SC it would have been better for him.

Link from before the race where Jenson said he wanted to start on primes?

Either way, you'd agree starting on the primes totally screwed him?

[bud]

Hello?? It was Jenson who WANTED to start on the primes! This is a fact. He has wanted this strategy for a few races now but the team declined his request. Only now in the dying stages of the season where a gamble could have paid off did they agree to his request.

Hell i put 20 bucks on him, he was paying 13 for a win. I thought he was in for a shot for the win. Maybe if there was no SC it would have been better for him.

Link from before the race where Jenson said he wanted to start on primes?

Either way, you'd agree starting on the primes totally screwed him?

Again Spanky it seems your wishing for a bad news story to put down McLaren is coming out here if you ask me.

Not every fact is a story online. And because its not a story onilne does not mean it is false! Brundle said it during the Qualifying coverage, He said what i posted word for word.
His choice to start on primes came in Qualifying obviously as you have to race on the tyre you set the fastest time on in Q3. Jenson waited for a while before going out on one stint on the primes in Q3. This was pre determined to start the race on primes, before knowing where Lewis would start from before knowing where Jenson would start from. To suggest it was there to help Lewis, well Jenson wouldnt be for it at all. And if it were so, dont you think Jenson would have let Lewis by on the first stint during the race? Jenson holding up Lewis screwed him over of a chance of being ahead of Alonso after the stops.
Any hint of favouring Lewis and he will walk away, he has been saying it all season and so far he is still in the team. Funny that, to those who think McLaren are favouring any driver let alone Lewis this year



ANd I just said i put $20 on Jenson to win the race! I thought he was in for a shot. Hindsight yeah it didnt work but how easy is it to say that in hindsight? every gamble that doesnt pay off this is said. IF Jensons tyre gamble didnt pay off in Australia would you be saying he was screwed then? see the logic here?

[spankyham]

Hello?? It was Jenson who WANTED to start on the primes! This is a fact. He has wanted this strategy for a few races now but the team declined his request. Only now in the dying stages of the season where a gamble could have paid off did they agree to his request.

Hell i put 20 bucks on him, he was paying 13 for a win. I thought he was in for a shot for the win. Maybe if there was no SC it would have been better for him.

Link from before the race where Jenson said he wanted to start on primes?

Either way, you'd agree starting on the primes totally screwed him?

Again Spanky it seems your wishing for a bad news story to put down McLaren is coming out here if you ask me.

Not every fact is a story online. And because its not a story onilne does not mean it is false! Brundle said it during the Qualifying coverage, He said what i posted word for word.
His choice to start on primes came in Qualifying obviously as you have to race on the tyre you set the fastest time on in Q3. Jenson waited for a while before going out on one stint on the primes in Q3. This was pre determined to start the race on primes, before knowing where Lewis would start from before knowing where Jenson would start from. To suggest it was there to help Lewis, well Jenson wouldnt be for it at all. And if it were so, dont you think Jenson would have let Lewis by on the first stint during the race? Jenson holding up Lewis screwed him over of a chance of being ahead of Alonso after the stops.
Any hint of favouring Lewis and he will walk away, he has been saying it all season and so far he is still in the team. Funny that, to those who think McLaren are favouring any driver let alone Lewis this year



ANd I just said i put $20 on Jenson to win the race! I thought he was in for a shot. Hindsight yeah it didnt work but how easy is it to say that in hindsight? every gamble that doesnt pay off this is said. IF Jensons tyre gamble didnt pay off in Australia would you be saying he was screwed then? see the logic here?

I haven't downloaded the BBC coverage yet, but I accept that you were quoting Brundle regarding the tyres put on Jenson's car.
BUT, if you read the comments from the man himself, they don't sound like someone who was either committed to, or happy with his starting tyres. This is from the formula1 website:-

Q You started fifth and finished fourth. That sounds reasonable - and yet still there is no happy face…
JB: At first glance that might not look too bad, but we are in the fight for the championship and then you should cover the people that you are racing. We didn’t do that. We have to look at the data and look at the reasons for that. At the end of the race we put the options on and I had a lot of grip and the car was very fast. But still we haven’t been quick enough today - not compared to the Red Bulls and the Ferrari.