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[racechick]

I have a question. Its a question to the posters (Bill and Spanky I think) who suggested that Jenson was acting under team orders at the Singapore GP when he briefly went ahead of Lewis then fell back. Ive started a new thread becasue it was mentioned in a thread about something else.
Jenson is more risk-averse than Lewis, thats why he didnt push it, but for the sake of arguement lets assume, as you state ,that he was acting under team orders. Now my question. What on earth happened to team orders today? Twice McLaren had a chance to move or keep Hamilton ahead but they didnt on either occassion. Why? The first chance-at the beginning when Jens was on a different strategy and clearly slower than Lewis and holding him up. The second at the end when Jenson was faster and Lewis sticken with no third gear. Jenson could have stayed behind and given Lewis the extra points, they were well ahead of Schumacher. So why didnt they?

[What's Burning?]

Looks like we've got a topic for discussion that is sure to entertain till Korea.

[texasmr2]

Looks like we've got a topic for discussion that is sure to entertain till Korea.

Oh great another McLaren thread .

[darwin dali]

I have a question. Its a question to the posters (Bill and Spanky I think) who suggested that Jenson was acting under team orders at the Singapore GP when he briefly went ahead of Lewis then fell back. Ive started a new thread becasue it was mentioned in a thread about something else.
Jenson is more risk-averse than Lewis, thats why he didnt push it, but for the sake of arguement lets assume, as you state ,that he was acting under team orders. Now my question. What on earth happened to team orders today? Twice McLaren had a chance to move or keep Hamilton ahead but they didnt on either occassion. Why? The first chance-at the beginning when Jens was on a different strategy and clearly slower than Lewis and holding him up. The second at the end when Jenson was faster and Lewis sticken with no third gear. Jenson could have stayed behind and given Lewis the extra points, they were well ahead of Schumacher. So why didnt they?

Maybe it was about giving JB an advantage? Maybe McLaren feel with LH's bad luck lately, they should have 'team orders' in place that favor JB over LH on track?

[What's Burning?]

Looks like we've got a topic for discussion that is sure to entertain till Korea.

Oh great another McLaren thread .

We'll lets be more inclusive. Another McLaren/Ferrari philosophy thread.

I grew up in the NYC area, so you either liked the Mets or you liked the Yankees. You couldn't support both, no option, you chose one and lived and died by them even when it hurt. It wasn't enough to simply be a Mets fan or a Yankee fan, you had to love one and hate the other it came with the territory. I suspect it's like that with most other sports and I'm sure we can get examples on this forum. Generally though there is a clear delineation of team philosophy and history and that's why people chose one over the other and it's those different team philosophies that lead the fan to love/like one, dislike/hate the other.

So it's the same example here. Just a part of the sport.

[texasmr2]

Thats a philosophy I have never understood but to each their own and I was just being facetious anyway.

[What's Burning?]

Thats a philosophy I have never understood but to each their own and I was just being facetious anyway.

That's because you didn't grow up in NYC, and as a bonus with your 80's hair you would have been let into Studio 54.

[texasmr2]

Saved by Texas once again yet Andy would have dug my accent .

[MattMK45]

Looks like we've got a topic for discussion that is sure to entertain till Korea.

Oh great another McLaren thread .

We'll lets be more inclusive. Another McLaren/Ferrari philosophy thread.

I grew up in the NYC area, so you either liked the Mets or you liked the Yankees. You couldn't support both, no option, you chose one and lived and died by them even when it hurt. It wasn't enough to simply be a Mets fan or a Yankee fan, you had to love one and hate the other it came with the territory. I suspect it's like that with most other sports and I'm sure we can get examples on this forum. Generally though there is a clear delineation of team philosophy and history and that's why people chose one over the other and it's those different team philosophies that lead the fan to love/like one, dislike/hate the other.

So it's the same example here. Just a part of the sport.

Not terribly relevant so I'll probably will get a spanking but why is it called the world series baseball? As far as I can make out all the teams are american.

[texasmr2]

A good reference point, thanks DD :
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OASt6zRI ... r_embedded

[vaptin]

Interesting how insistent Brundel is (and has been all year) on team orders being used.

Lewis also clearly let Jenson through there, although he was probably going to get passed soon enough.

Similar situation to Ferrari in Australia wasn't it? Car behind was faster, but team didn't ask them to move out of the way, even Mercedes did something similar this race, Schumacher was faster than Rosberg but simply told: "if you make a move, he'll give you space", which sounds to me like: "we want you to go for it". So it seems standard practice.

Mclaren had already decided that both their drivers would be going for the championship, and I'm not sure if they realistically thought Lewis would mange to pass Alonso (if he couldn't get past Jenson on merit, what were the chances of doing Alonso?).

[racechick]

I have a question. Its a question to the posters (Bill and Spanky I think) who suggested that Jenson was acting under team orders at the Singapore GP when he briefly went ahead of Lewis then fell back. Ive started a new thread becasue it was mentioned in a thread about something else.
Jenson is more risk-averse than Lewis, thats why he didnt push it, but for the sake of arguement lets assume, as you state ,that he was acting under team orders. Now my question. What on earth happened to team orders today? Twice McLaren had a chance to move or keep Hamilton ahead but they didnt on either occassion. Why? The first chance-at the beginning when Jens was on a different strategy and clearly slower than Lewis and holding him up. The second at the end when Jenson was faster and Lewis sticken with no third gear. Jenson could have stayed behind and given Lewis the extra points, they were well ahead of Schumacher. So why didnt they?

Maybe it was about giving JB an advantage? Maybe McLaren feel with LH's bad luck lately, they should have 'team orders' in place that favor JB over LH on track?

Ah but last weekend according to some it was all about giving Lewis the advantage, its all lewis's team. So what? McLaren just change their mind over two weeks and decided to favour the driver with less points?

Interesting how insistent Brundel is (and has been all year) on team orders being used.

Lewis also clearly let Jenson through there, although he was probably going to get passed soon enough.

Similar situation to Ferrari in Australia wasn't it? Car behind was faster, but team didn't ask them to move out of the way, even Mercedes did something similar this race, Schumacher was faster than Rosberg but simply told: "if you make a move, he'll give you space", which sounds to me like: "we want you to go for it". So it seems standard practice.

Mclaren had already decided that both their drivers would be going for the championship, and I'm not sure if they realistically thought Lewis would mange to pass Alonso (if he couldn't get past Jenson on merit, what were the chances of doing Alonso?).

Standard practise except in Ferrari. Lewis may well have got Alonso without the lost gear and yes Mercedes said -race but dont take each other out.But thats not the point. I know McLaren are letting both drivers race withnout team orders but Spanky and Bill seem to think thats not so. I want to know how they think Mclaren, if they had Button driving under team orders in Singapore, two weeks later failed so miserabley to issue team orders?

[smokin]

Interesting how insistent Brundel is (and has been all year) on team orders being used.

Lewis also clearly let Jenson through there, although he was probably going to get passed soon enough.

Similar situation to Ferrari in Australia wasn't it? Car behind was faster, but team didn't ask them to move out of the way, even Mercedes did something similar this race, Schumacher was faster than Rosberg but simply told: "if you make a move, he'll give you space", which sounds to me like: "we want you to go for it". So it seems standard practice.

Mclaren had already decided that both their drivers would be going for the championship, and I'm not sure if they realistically thought Lewis would mange to pass Alonso (if he couldn't get past Jenson on merit, what were the chances of doing Alonso?).

Lewis was catching Alonso hand over fist but overtaking him would have been a different proposition. Maybe McLaren took away his third gear to avoid a repeat of Hamilton/Webber in Singapore?

But seriously, unless there was a radio message that we didn't hear, it looked like Lewis took it upon himself to let Jenson past (does this constitute team orders?) and, yes, Mercedes' radio message did sound an awful lot like (barely) veiled team orders.

[f1ea]

Dont think there were team orders for Mclaren there at Singapore. No need to. The fact that Jenson signifficantly slowed down, to me simply goes to show why they are so different and where one gets points when the other doesnt.

Jenson got a decent finish in that race. Lewis DNFd on an overtaking move. Perfect example of their approach to racing. Sometimes it works for one, sometimes it works for the other... sometimes it works for both! like in Turkey.

Truth is, Jenson needs to be more aggressive if he wants to win championships against the current crop.

[racechick]

Interesting how insistent Brundel is (and has been all year) on team orders being used.

Lewis also clearly let Jenson through there, although he was probably going to get passed soon enough.

Similar situation to Ferrari in Australia wasn't it? Car behind was faster, but team didn't ask them to move out of the way, even Mercedes did something similar this race, Schumacher was faster than Rosberg but simply told: "if you make a move, he'll give you space", which sounds to me like: "we want you to go for it". So it seems standard practice.

Mclaren had already decided that both their drivers would be going for the championship, and I'm not sure if they realistically thought Lewis would mange to pass Alonso (if he couldn't get past Jenson on merit, what were the chances of doing Alonso?).

Lewis was catching Alonso hand over fist but overtaking him would have been a different proposition. Maybe McLaren took away his third gear to avoid a repeat of Hamilton/Webber in Singapore?

But seriously, unless there was a radio message that we didn't hear, it looked like Lewis took it upon himself to let Jenson past (does this constitute team orders?) and, yes, Mercedes' radio message did sound an awful lot like (barely) veiled team orders.

Im sure Lewis did take it upon himself to let Alonso past. If he couldnt go after Alonso then why not let Button try. And Button was way faster then But how does that sit with the view that McLaren favour Lewis and have team orders to help him?